Frostburn at DriveThruRPG

[jeffh]

You have to access the internet to get authorization to read the document every time you open it.

That is just not true, sorry. I'm not surprised to see that some of the early misconceptions about DRM are still alive and well (someone suggested the DRM might prevent printing them, which has *NEVER* been one of the real issues with DRM), but I would not have expected such a respected, longtime poster to be among those perpetuating them.

As for the price, I couldn't agree more with the majority here; even if your access to print books is crap, I can't see this being a good deal, especially if you plan on printing it. If your access to the Internet is so much better than your access to print books, and Amazon won't ship to you, you can still get it cheaper than this on eBay, even after shipping (and isn't it interesting that, though several people have posted on behalf of such people, no-one has yet posted claiming to actually be one of them!). Never mind that it's, by WotC standards, a pretty marginal title; Monster Manual III or D20 Future would make for a more reasonable test. I don't agree that it has to go under $10, but they need to knock at least $10 off the price for it to be reasonable; that would put them in the same price range as the main WoD rulebook, which apparently is doing well for DriveThru.

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

I'm not going to pay MSRP for the hardcover, either. I can get it waaaay cheaper online. I've not paid MSRP for a D&D book in 2 years. The last book I bought off the shelf at a bookstore (the Expanded Psionics Handbook) was marked 20% off MSRP. When I went to pay for it, it rang up at (with sales tax) for $2.16. Yes. Two dollars and sixteen cents. The checkout girl ran the barcode back through two more times, then shrugged and said, "Thanks for shopping Hastings."

Woot!

 

[Kanegrundar]

I'm torn on this issue. While I'm happy about WotC offering books as pdf's, I (1. DO NOT like DRM and (2. WILL NOT pay retail value for an electronic book. $35 for a pdf?!?! That's crazy.

I prefer print, but for books that I'm on the fence about pdf's fit the bill. I don't plan on buying Frostburn in print, but I would have considered it for $10-$12 in pdf. Too bad this "test" of the e-book format is going to fail miserably simply due to the price...not that being DRM was going to help. (I do understand why Wizards went that route though.)

Kane

 

[Scribble]

I'm not going to pay MSRP for the hardcover, either. I can get it waaaay cheaper online. I've not paid MSRP for a D&D book in 2 years.

Again I'd like to hear from DriveThru.

The reason you get books cheaper online is because the retail outlet (Amazon, walmart, etc...) Takes less of a profit on the sale. That's how those stores operate. They rely on MASS sales to make a buck, whereas smaller stores rely on the 40% profit margin.

So what's Drivethru's take?

 

[Jupp]

I'm torn on this issue. While I'm happy about WotC offering books as pdf's, I (1. DO NOT like DRM and (2. WILL NOT pay retail value for an electronic book. $35 for a pdf?!?! That's crazy.

I prefer print, but for books that I'm on the fence about pdf's fit the bill. I don't plan on buying Frostburn in print, but I would have considered it for $10-$12 in pdf. Too bad this "test" of the e-book format is going to fail miserably simply due to the price...not that being DRM was going to help. (I do understand why Wizards went that route though.)

Kane

I think it is totally understandable why they went with DRM. Without DRM you go buy the pdf and then share it with your other 6 gaming buddies. And WotC will never see a penny for those shared copies. Sorry but if I were WotC I would go DRM as well if I would consider entering the digital document market. Either you stick with printed books or you go with secured pdf files to get at least "some" assurance that you will actually see money for sold pdfs. I understand and know that DRM is hackable but the amount of people that are able to crack DRM is really tiny compared to those that do not even know how DRM really works. And those that would crack DRM are the same people that would go get their copy from emule or other P2P networks so it wouldn't matter for those folks anyway. The are lost black sheep either way for WotC and whatever you would do they would go and get their D&D books illegaly no matter what.

And I think everyone agrees about the fact that the price is way too high for this product. But I still dont understand why people would only pay 5-12$ for such a product. That's half the price of Amazon and even more compared to the official price of WotC...For the same product except that it is in digital format. At least I didn't hear a reasonable argument for this yet. Anyone care to explain his opinion?


Edit: corrected 1% of all typos in this post

 

[Eremite]

Personally, I can understand why a publisher would prefer to go with DRM even though I find it inconvenient.

However, I've always thought the WotC guys were pretty reasonable businesspeople but the decision to:

- charge maximum retail price (heck, I can get it cheaper than that in Oz); and
- begin with a release in a product line that probably won't be as great a success as, say, another Monster Manual,

makes the idea of using this as a "test case" a wee bit silly. I wonder if a new MBA has just come up with a brilliant new theory that needs to be tested?

Anyway, I would like to see more WotC books (and Paizo magazines) published this way so I was really hoping that the "test case" would have been cleverly chosen and executed.

 

[Henry]

I think it is totally understandable why they went with DRM. Without DRM you go buy the pdf and then share it with your other 6 gaming buddies.

Actually, I do this now, legally, with my hard copy. (Which reminds me, one of my gamers never did pick up my copy of Feng Shui he wanted to peruse...)

 

[Jupp]

Actually, I do this now, legally, with my hard copy. (Which reminds me, one of my gamers never did pick up my copy of Feng Shui he wanted to peruse...)

Sure, but with the hard copy there is still only one unit floating around and at one time you will probably go to the current holder and ask him to give it back because you wanna work with it again. With a free pdf each those 6 buddies will actually "own" a copy. Quite a difference there IMO.

 

[Umbran]

I think it is totally understandable why they went with DRM. Without DRM you go buy the pdf and then share it with your other 6 gaming buddies.

Last time I checked, anyone with the internet connection to register the product could look up how to defeat the DRM, and still make copies for his 6 other buddies.

You might be tempted to say, "but most users wouldn't do that!". You are correct. Only the unethical ones who then would put the high-quality non-DRM pdf on file-sharing services would do that! Just for spite!

So, with DRM, you probably get the same result.

 

[Shadow145]

Maybe it's not what we think it is

Marketing wise, this makes no sense. If you are releasing something like this and want it to succeed, don't companies typically offer their first products with cool sales and package deals and such?

How about this: What if they are testing the security of Drivethru and DRM's. Maybe this particular pdf has a tag (either electronic or a specific typo or something) and they want to see how badly it get hacked and posted on Kazaa or wherever. They are encouraging that behavior by having the price at MSRP.

I'm not sure what they would do with that knowledge, either sue like RIAA or simply not pursue .pdf products.

Or maybe I'm assuming a level of sophistication and paranoia at WOTC that doesn't exist.