Full Discipline ... what the?

[BobTheNob]

On of my players is thinking of rolling up a monk, so I have read up on them to prepare, in particular the "full discipline". Ok, each power has a move and attack option, got it.

In PHB3 on page 217 is the explenation of a full discipline.
Point a: Can only pick one per round unless you use an action point. Got it.

Then, is this
"Each of the techniques in a full discipline power requires a separate action to use. The actions are specified in the power. You can use the techniques in whatever order you like during a round, and you can use one of the techniques and not the other during a particular round."

So, I can use the "techniques" in whatever order I like, but I can only using one of them, and Im only allowed on Fully discipline choice per round? Im confused, if I can only use one, why is order significant?

Then a little later on
"...If you use an encounter full discipline power, you can use both the techniques, but can use each technique only once during that round"

Whoa! Didnt the previous bit say "you can use one of the techniques and not the other during a particular round".

I know Im missing something here. A little confused...need help. Thanks

 

[SabreCat]

That baffled me too. I think the intention is that when you use an encounter Full Discipline, you can use both the movement and the attack, and the power gets expended at the end of that round.

"You can use one of the techniques and not the other" -- that is, you can choose to use one and not the other if you only want to use one. Not that you are only ever able to use one at a time.

 

[SabreCat]

Oh, I just grokked the rest of your confusion.

Each such keyworded power represents a Discipline. You can only use one Discipline per round. (Except on an action point, in which case you can kick off another Discipline.)

Disciplines can have multiple Techniques inside them. You can use any number of the Techniques within a Discipline in the round that Discipline is active.

 

[Nikosandros]

You can use the techniques in whatever order you like during a round, and you can use one of the techniques and not the other during a particular round."

The rule means that you are allowed to only use one of the techniques, not that you must only use one.

"...If you use an encounter full discipline power, you can use both the techniques, but can use each technique only once during that round"

This part means that, if you use an encounter full discipline, you can't use the movement part twice in the round, even if you take a second move action instead of a standard action in the round.

 

[fba827]

"Each of the techniques in a full discipline power requires a separate action to use.

So you need to use up a standard action to use the standard action part, and a move action to use the move action part.

You can use the techniques in whatever order you like during a round,

So you can do the move action part first then the standard action part, or visa-versa.

and you can use one of the techniques and not the other during a particular round."

So you can use a full technique discipline that gives you a standard and move action choice, but elect to only use the move action, or elect to use the standard action.

Basically, the word can is the important word to emphasize. It's saying that just because you use one of those powers, you don't have to use BOTH of its techniques, you can elect to just use one part of the other if you want.

"...If you use an encounter full discipline power, you can use both the techniques, but can use each technique only once during that round"

Whoa! Didnt the previous bit say "you can use one of the techniques and not the other during a particular round".

The operative word there is "can" so he can use one part of the technique and not the other one (or he can use both). Basically, it's saying you aren't forced to use Jump A if you just wanted to use Chop A with a regular move action shift 1.


For the sake of example:
Monk Technique A
Standard Action Monk Chop A
Move Action Monk Jump A

So on the monk's turn, he chooses Technique A so he can

• Use Chop A and Jump A (in either order)
• He can Chop A and use any 'normal' move action (in either order)
• He can Jump A and any 'normal' standard action (in either order)
• He can trade in his standard action for a second move action in order toJump A and any 'normal' move action (in either order)

(...plus minor action)

He can not:
Jump A Jump A (while he can move action twice by trading in a standard action, the rule doesn't let you use the discipline's move action twice, so he could Jump A and then use some regular move action like a shift 1 or stand from prone or move his speed or something.


that's how i take it anyway....
(and that's also how they seemed to be using it in the WotC podcast they did in Dark Sun where someone was a thri-kreen monk)

 

[Klaus]

You *can* use Jump A Jump A. What you can't do is use Jump A Chop B (mixing, say, the movement part of Crane's Wings with the attack part of Dragon's Tail).

 

[fba827]

You *can* use Jump A Jump A. What you can't do is use Jump A Chop B (mixing, say, the movement part of Crane's Wings with the attack part of Dragon's Tail).

wouldn't Jump A Jump A break the part that says:
"If you use an encounter full discipline power, you can use both the techniques, but can use each technique only once during that round" (PHB3 p217)

(emphasis added by me).

 

[Nahat Anoj]

On of my players is thinking of rolling up a monk, so I have read up on them to prepare, in particular the "full discipline". Ok, each power has a move and attack option, got it.

In PHB3 on page 217 is the explenation of a full discipline.
Point a: Can only pick one per round unless you use an action point. Got it.

Then, is this
"Each of the techniques in a full discipline power requires a separate action to use. The actions are specified in the power. You can use the techniques in whatever order you like during a round, and you can use one of the techniques and not the other during a particular round."

I read the "cans" in the last sentence as meaning "You can (if you want to)..." It's just highlighting the fact that you have options.

You *can* use Jump A Jump A. What you can't do is use Jump A Chop B (mixing, say, the movement part of Crane's Wings with the attack part of Dragon's Tail).

Yeah, this is how I read it. In the last paragraph of the Full Discipline entry in the compendium:

The number of times you can use a technique during a round is determined by the power’s type—at-will or encounter—and by the actions you have available in that round. For example, you can use the techniques of an at-will full discipline power as many times during a round as you like, provided you have enough of the required actions. If you use an encounter full discipline power, you can use both techniques, but can use each technique only once during that round.

So if you have the two move actions to spare, you can do two Crane's Wings jumps, or two Dragon's Tail swaps, but not a Crane's Wing jump then a Dragon's Tail swap.

 

[Nahat Anoj]

wouldn't Jump A Jump A break the part that says:
"If you use an encounter full discipline power, you can use both the techniques, but can use each technique only once during that round" (PHB3 p217)

(emphasis added by me).

The way I read it, the bolded part only applies to encounter full discipline powers.

 

[Klaus]

The way I read it, the bolded part only applies to encounter full discipline powers.

Correct.