[FULL] OOC: Dichotomy's Age of Worms Redux [FULL]

[michael_noah]

That's what the rules say, and I think it's silly that a thing made specifically to hurt people (a magicky thing, no less), does a worse job than a lantern. It's really a problem with swarms, though, not with thrown weapons.

And the rule that you cannot target a grid intersection occupied by a large creature should also not apply to swarms, otherwise throwing a lantern is just dumb. You need to aim at the edge of the swarm, not the middle? Swarms are silly.

Barring anyone having an epiphany, Boldak will target the swarm normally and hope he rolls well.

 

[TiCaudata]

Swarms ARE silly. They should count as a bunch of tiny creatures that occupy an area of effect or something, rather than both tiny creatures that can't be hurt with weapons and large creatures that can't be targeted normally. It isn't as though 5,000 beetles would get in the way of a flask like an ogre would.

I also think that spells that damage creatures in adjacent squares should have an additive effect on swarms. Yes, that would make it MUCH easier to kill the swarm, but I would probably complain less that it is considered a large creature if its total size could be used against it at all.

The notion that alchemist's fire is less effective than a lobbed lantern really is ridiculous. The only thing I can think that might work is declare the individual creatures tiny with the high touch AC, but say that they wouldn't block the targeting of an intersection. At the same time they collectively cover a large area and have collective hit points so that the fire only deals damage once per round, therefore keeping the fire from being TOO powerful. This weakens the swarm a bit, but we've often said that the most broken part of the swarm is the touch AC.

Alternatively, I suppose, would be to throw it at the intersection in between Alexis and Viktor so that when the bugs decide to eat them both the bugs will fry on the second round.

 

[Dichotomy]

I was thinking this over some more, and I think perhaps the easiest solution to adjust a swarm's AC to treat it as a large creature rather than a diminutive one (have a -1 size mod to AC rather than a +4). I think this makes intuitive sense, since you aren't trying to hit a diminutive creature. It also, to me, makes more sense for balance purposes.

For example, take a look at spider swarm: 9 hit points; 20 move (but its ACTUALLY 40 move, since it doesn't take an action to attack; it just moves over you and auto damages); it does 1d6 damage, WITHOUT and attack roll, to EVERYONE it covers; it can only be hurt by weapons that people usually aren't wielding. Add on to that an AC and touch AC of 17, and you realize why people die, because even the members of the party that are GOOD at hitting stuff will miss more than half the time. CR 1 my ass.

Now, change that AC to 12, and it seems more balanced, at least to me. Do you guys think that is probably right, or does that make it too easy?

 

[TiCaudata]

It makes it more difficult than my option, but takes care of the size thing which is primarily what I was trying to focus on. I think that this probably is the most correct option. Since you can't target an individual creature in the swarm it just doesn't make sense that you would have to target each individual creature rather than the swarm as a total.

 

[o3caudata]

Swarms are stupid. Less so with the lowered armor class.... I can't believe they got that bonus... They'll certainly be more manageble without it.

 

[worthley]

What is going to happen with posting for the end of the year/holidays?

 

[Dichotomy]

From the 22nd to the 27th I will have sporadic access at best (stupid dial-up). From the 27th until late on the 1st I probably won't have access at all. So, basically, post if you can.

 

[TiCaudata]

there'll be a phone line in Nashwauk, it makes normal dialup seem like greased rails and has a tendency to spontaneously disconnect, but it's there.

 

[Dichotomy]

Well, I also have no intention of using the internet at Nashwauk. I still remember when we refused to use clocks up there...

 

[Dichotomy]

Ti, mn, and o3, you guys should work on leveling up your characters. Don't worry worthley, you and Alendar are right behind them.