Full Progression Casters in d20 M?
- Thread starter Stormborn
- Start date
I wouldn't allow it in my game, but that's not what you asked. 
As others have mentioned, it is going to make those classes more powerful than any other for that level. If you're playing a d20 Modern game, giving a third-level character Magic Missile at level 3 (2d4+2 damage) is a bit like giving them several shots with a small pistol that can be carried anywhere, passes all metal detectors, can't be confiscated or found by frisking, and leaves no forensic evidence to implicate the caster.
The speed with which such spells start threatening massive damage is scary, and unless you're ALSO giving out save-boosting items, your game is going to get a lot more lethal, and probably not in the fun way you anticipate.
One decent (I think) compromise is the Urban Arcana PrC, the Archmage. A mage can get into that class after a few levels, and one of its abilities is "Count all character levels for purposes of determining your caster level". The key is that you don't get that ability until you get the archmage level, which you can't do until you reach at least 9th level as a character (Spellcraft 12 ranks). So at 9th level, you could be a Smart3/Mage6, and your fireball does 6d6. But at 10th level, you're a Smart3/Mage6/Archmage1, and your fireball does 10d6 because as an archmage, you count all character levels for determining caster level.
Getting that bump at 10th level doesn't unbalance the game as much, because at 10th level, people have better saves and more hit points.
As others have mentioned, it is going to make those classes more powerful than any other for that level. If you're playing a d20 Modern game, giving a third-level character Magic Missile at level 3 (2d4+2 damage) is a bit like giving them several shots with a small pistol that can be carried anywhere, passes all metal detectors, can't be confiscated or found by frisking, and leaves no forensic evidence to implicate the caster.
The speed with which such spells start threatening massive damage is scary, and unless you're ALSO giving out save-boosting items, your game is going to get a lot more lethal, and probably not in the fun way you anticipate.
One decent (I think) compromise is the Urban Arcana PrC, the Archmage. A mage can get into that class after a few levels, and one of its abilities is "Count all character levels for purposes of determining your caster level". The key is that you don't get that ability until you get the archmage level, which you can't do until you reach at least 9th level as a character (Spellcraft 12 ranks). So at 9th level, you could be a Smart3/Mage6, and your fireball does 6d6. But at 10th level, you're a Smart3/Mage6/Archmage1, and your fireball does 10d6 because as an archmage, you count all character levels for determining caster level.
Getting that bump at 10th level doesn't unbalance the game as much, because at 10th level, people have better saves and more hit points.
Lukeworm
First Post
You may want to check Merlinsworkshop's Clasicly Modern http://www.merlinsworkshop.co.uk.
The main idea of clasicly Modern is to rebuild DnD classes using D20 Modern classes, talents, feats and skills. However skills may be used as a part of the spellcasting system.
The main idea of clasicly Modern is to rebuild DnD classes using D20 Modern classes, talents, feats and skills. However skills may be used as a part of the spellcasting system.
EnglishScribe
First Post
Thanks for the mention of Classically Modern.
Just to clarify, Skills are NOT used as part of the Magic System, although there is an optional rule to limit Caster/Manifester level by Spell/Psicraft ranks if the GM decides it is necessary.
The magic system in Classically Modern is basically the same as in D&D & D20M except:
Hope this is some help,
Antony
Just to clarify, Skills are NOT used as part of the Magic System, although there is an optional rule to limit Caster/Manifester level by Spell/Psicraft ranks if the GM decides it is necessary.
The magic system in Classically Modern is basically the same as in D&D & D20M except:
- Access to Traditions of spells (Arcane Spells, Divine Prayers, Psionic Powers etc) is controlled by feats, which the archaic casting classes get for free anyway. This is to allow more diverse classes, such as the Earthsoul, which manifests Nature 'Spells' (called Forces in Classically Modern) psionically.
- Caster/Manifester level progression is not automatic but requires gaining a Talent for each level. Casting/Manifesting classes receive additional Talents (called FX Talents) with which to purchase Caster/Manifester level increases or can choose to specialise in other areas instead.
Hope this is some help,
Antony
Last edited:
Stormborn
Explorer
Antony, Having trouble getting your site to load.
Everyone else, I should have perhaps made it clear that the change in the magic system wouldn't be the only alteration I would make to d20 M for this. MDT would be an obvious one, but setting would be another. Assume a level of magictech similar to Eberron, where things like:
"If you're playing a d20 Modern game, giving a third-level character Magic Missile at level 3 (2d4+2 damage) is a bit like giving them several shots with a small pistol that can be carried anywhere, passes all metal detectors, can't be confiscated or found by frisking, and leaves no forensic evidence to implicate the caster."
wont be a problem any more than it would be in a standard fantasy setting.
Therefore, I'm not worried about a 3rd level Smart Hero with the spell casting of a Wizard being balanced against modern antiterrorism units, gun control laws, or even the standard d20M weapons and MDT. I'm concerned with having a 3rdlevel Smart Hero with the spell casting of a Wizard being balanced against a 3rd level Strong Hero with a magic sword adn gear.
To that end I am starting to think that the way to do this would be allow Heroic Paths, somewhat like in Midnight, that would cover spellcasting while allowign nonspellcasting classes some benifits of their own to compensate.
Everyone else, I should have perhaps made it clear that the change in the magic system wouldn't be the only alteration I would make to d20 M for this. MDT would be an obvious one, but setting would be another. Assume a level of magictech similar to Eberron, where things like:
"If you're playing a d20 Modern game, giving a third-level character Magic Missile at level 3 (2d4+2 damage) is a bit like giving them several shots with a small pistol that can be carried anywhere, passes all metal detectors, can't be confiscated or found by frisking, and leaves no forensic evidence to implicate the caster."
wont be a problem any more than it would be in a standard fantasy setting.
Therefore, I'm not worried about a 3rd level Smart Hero with the spell casting of a Wizard being balanced against modern antiterrorism units, gun control laws, or even the standard d20M weapons and MDT. I'm concerned with having a 3rdlevel Smart Hero with the spell casting of a Wizard being balanced against a 3rd level Strong Hero with a magic sword adn gear.
To that end I am starting to think that the way to do this would be allow Heroic Paths, somewhat like in Midnight, that would cover spellcasting while allowign nonspellcasting classes some benifits of their own to compensate.
EnglishScribe
First Post
Seems OK from here, what are you getting displayed?
Stormborn: Aha. Alrighty, then -- yeah, in a historical setting, it gets a little less wiggy to put full-progression casters in there, since that past won't have computers, and the roll of "guy who does research" is a lot less heroic in the past than it is here in the present.
I really would check out Grim Tales -- not to make all your players play it, but to see how GT handles things. It might be something you can teach the few players in your group who are interested in being spellcasters.
I really would check out Grim Tales -- not to make all your players play it, but to see how GT handles things. It might be something you can teach the few players in your group who are interested in being spellcasters.
The Shaman
First Post
Tru dat.DnDChick said:
It astounds me when gamers complain that the game isn't lethal enough! :\
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