Fumbles

[the Jester]

Hmm, granted that hitting yourself with a longspear or whatever is difficult. It's easy to hurt yourself with a lot of weapons, though.

In the case of the longspear, that one might shift down- basically, if you roll an 'impossible fumble' it shifts down one severity until you get one that does apply.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

Hmm, granted that hitting yourself with a longspear or whatever is difficult. It's easy to hurt yourself with a lot of weapons, though.

Easy? Easy if you're an untrained chump picking it a 2-bladed sword? Easy if you're a hobbyist who practices with a rapier weekly? Or easy if you're a trained warrior with years of experience using a longsword in actual deadly combat?

Yes, with some melee weapons and some degree of training self-injury is feasible. I still disagree that an accidental self-injury with a weapon should be comparable in degree to the injury inflicted by a trained fighter in an intentional attack against an opponent. It has to do with the range of motions involved, how the grip limits the areas than can be struck, how throwing your weight into a swing will increase its impact, how you cannot throw your weight into a swing against yourself... but I'm basing this on my knowledge of physics, axes, sledgehammers, and baseball bats, not actual combat, and I don't have statistics on how many knights or gladiators impaled themselves by accident. And it's your game.

Still, if you're going to introduce fumbles, introduce feats or combat to eliminate them. Fighters in particular should have that option -- if you really really want fumbles, then reserve "Perfect Hands" as a high-level fighter feat.

 

[the Jester]

Still, if you're going to introduce fumbles, introduce feats or combat to eliminate them. Fighters in particular should have that option -- if you really really want fumbles, then reserve "Perfect Hands" as a high-level fighter feat.

Exactly my thought, spells, feats and items that will reduce severity of fumbles, etc would be cool. I already have a system for adding color to critical hits imc that has a similar kind of severity chart (severity is determined by proportion of current hp eliminated by the crit) and feats and weapons that increase the severity by 1d6 or thereabouts.

One reason I want to use a fun fumble system is to be a first step towards recreating the fumble spell.

 

[Elemental]

Let me tell you a couple of stories. The first comes from a game of Werewolf, wherethe party was attempting to rescue the kid of my character from a group of corrupted werewolves. Before long, it turned into high farce. One of the party randomly stabbed himself with his dagger. His opponent laughed, then randomly eviscerated himself. A werebear ally of the party attempted to do a WWF-style grab-and-slam-into-floor, only to accidentally grab the same character and kill him.

In another, in a D&D game, the GM had a rule that a roll of 1 was an automatic failure for everything. The sorcerer melted his Wand of Acid Arrows. The fighters threw their swords around. It wasn’t very good.

I don’t use fumbles at all, any more, even in games that allow them. Simply put, the PC’s are the heroes to me, and they shouldn’t be pointlessly humiliated or made to look incompetent. "Realism" be damned, (only most critical failures aren't even realistic--above points about baseball bats) Bruce Lee or Aragorn don’t randomly hurl their swords about or punch themselves in the head, and it’s those sorts of characters who players will usually want to emulate, more so than Jack Burton in “Big Trouble in Little China”.

Maybe in a grittier game, I would, but then I'd only implement the fumble if I can come up with something that doesn’t make the PC’s look clownish or incompetent. Something like:

“Your opponent sidesteps you, and trips you into the mud.”

Your target barely ducks the axe blow, and it lodges in the tree, lodging in the bark and causing you to lose your grip on the hilt.”

See the difference? Much better, IMO, than "You fall on your face." or "You sling your weapon away.".

 

[Rhun]

Still, if you're going to introduce fumbles, introduce feats or combat to eliminate them. Fighters in particular should have that option -- if you really really want fumbles, then reserve "Perfect Hands" as a high-level fighter feat.

That is part of the reason that the fumbles I use include a saving throw...higher level characters are less likely to fumble.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

That is part of the reason that the fumbles I use include a saving throw...higher level characters are less likely to fumble.

Most DMs seem to prefer Reflex saves, which are not a strong point for most fighters. Rogues are never going to fumble, heavy-armor fighters often are.

 

[Snowy]

the other problem seems to run that its another mechanic that hurts melee/ranged combat types and not spellcasters, seems like there should be a penalty added in for all classes.

oops your 24th level archmage just disintergrated themselves, still never mind.

I have spent the last 6 years LARPing which im sure most of you will look down on and others of you might not of met (Its a cross between re-enactment and rpgs, where you actually fight using weapon safe swords etc), I have never in even the messiest fight managed to hit myself or to accidently hit an ally UNLESS they managed to run up in the dark or through cover etc etc, which I would see as blindfighting I guess).

Point of all that lot (sorry i got sidetracked) a fumble system should be much much less severe and infrequent. ditto i suppose i've dropped a weapon once and that was parryign a quarter staff with a sword and catching it on the end of the sword.

 

[the Jester]

the other problem seems to run that its another mechanic that hurts melee/ranged combat types and not spellcasters, seems like there should be a penalty added in for all classes.

That's why I have guidelines for fumbled Concentration checks and such.