Fury over Black Hermione Granger

[Maxperson]

If you ignore that they are protesting their second class status, that statement is totally accurate.

Protesting through further racism doesn't give them a pass. Black lives matter should have been named All Lives Matter. That would have included the black lives.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

Because if the shoe was on the other foot, that's exactly what people would say.

So because someone else would make a similar claim, whether it's true or not, you feel that you have to make the same claim, whether it's true or not? That doesn't make much sense, does it?

Any time a white person does anything that can be perceived as non-white, they get slammed for "stealing my cultural identity." There was a case not too long ago where a white teenager was slammed because of the way she braided her hair. A lot of African American people were up in arms about how white people are stealing their culture away from them, etc. as if they owned a patent on freaking braids. It doesn't stop at hair. It spans into other areas as well, such as fashion, music, etc.

There was actually a lot more to that braid incident you are referring to than just some White teen braiding her hair. You've either ignored it, or you aren't aware of it.

However, if you take something established as white, then it is expected to be given freely to others without saying a word.

"Establishing something as white, and someone being white are two different things. Rowling, the author of the Harry Potter books, and the creator of the Hermione character, has said that her race was never really established. A white actor may have been chosen for the movies, but that does not "establish" Hermione's race. The movies are an adaptation of the books. They could have easily gone with a Black, Asian, or mixed race actor. They decided on Emma Watson, who happens to be White.

Let me ask you this; does Hermione's race actually make a difference in the Harry Potter stories?

The truth of the matter is that reverse racism is a bigger problem than the perceived presence of racism from whites.

That's arguable. You've forgotten to take into account the effect that "reverse racism" has compared to "racism from whites."

I'm to be held accountable for the actions of some white people from hundreds of years ago, that I have no connection to.

Who makes you feel this way?

I'm supposed to feel some kind of "white guilt" because people claim they're still "second class" citizens.

Just curious, do you believe that there is any racism, or that these people that claim they are second class citizens are telling the truth or lying?

Tons of minorities immigrated here and have been hugely successful. My wifes family came here from Mexico and have been successful.

So they've never encountered any form of racism? Does being successful and a minority imply that that person hasn't encountered racism in their life? Does it imply that racism doesn't exist?

We have a black president.

Eh... kind of. His mother was White. More like a a mixed race President. Also, and I'm not sure if you've chosen to ignore it, or just missed it, but Obama has had to deal with a lot of racism.

We have people of color making a hell of a lot more money than I do in multiple industries.

And that somehow changes or negates the existence of racism? These people may have a higher education than you. They may be more capable than you at doing the things they get paid to do. They may be in an industry with a higher average pay than the industry you are in. Does any of that negate or change the fact that they may still encounter racism? Does money somehow make it so racism can't affect you?

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

Probably because it's the prevailing sentiment of the country. Can you imagine the outcry if a group of white people called itself The Race? La Raza (The Race) is acceptable, though, because a minority is calling itself that. Or the outcry that would happen if a bunch of white people went around protesting that White Lives Matter. The shout of racism would echo so loudly the country would implode. Minorities get a pass on racism all over the place.

Interesting. Could you explain more?

 

[Maxperson]

"Establishing something as white, and someone being white are two different things. Rowling, the author of the Harry Potter books, and the creator of the Hermione character, has said that her race was never really established. A white actor may have been chosen for the movies, but that does not "establish" Hermione's race. The movies are an adaptation of the books. They could have easily gone with a Black, Asian, or mixed race actor. They decided on Emma Watson, who happens to be White.

Right, and she then ignores that she explicitly calls students who are black or asian out in writing as black or asian. She is being very disingenuous when she says that because she didn't call out that Hermione was white, that the race wasn't established. She established the white students as white by calling out the minorities who were different.

Rowling should have had the guts to say, "Hey, Hermione is white in the books, but I think it's great to see her played by a black actress." Instead, she took the disingenuous and easy way out.

 

[Maxperson]

Max, I've known you long enough to know why you feel that way. No need to explain it to me.

We've been asked not to engage with each other like this, so if you don't have a legitimate response, I'd appreciate you just not responding.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

Right, and she then ignores that she explicitly calls students who are black or asian out in writing as black or asian. She is being very disingenuous when she says that because she didn't call out that Hermione was white, that the race wasn't established. She established the white students as white by calling out the minorities who were different.

Rowling should have had the guts to say, "Hey, Hermione is white in the books, but I think it's great to see her played by a black actress." Instead, she took the disingenuous and easy way out.

What you're doing is interpreting the books, just like the casting director did when she cast Emma Watson. While Rowling may have explicitly described a character as black, that does not mean that not describing Hermione's race establishes her as White. As Rowling said, Hermione's race was never explicitly described. You're free to interpret the books as you'd like, but hat doesn't mean because you believe Hermione is White that she is actually "established" as White.

 

[The_Silversword]

You know whats really racist? The cast of Cats wasnt actually played by cats!!!

 

[Kramodlog]

Protesting through further racism doesn't give them a pass. Black lives matter should have been named All Lives Matter. That would have included the black lives.

If you think that it is because you miss the point of the movement and the situation they are denouncing.

I'll make an analogy with Gay Pride. Gay pride parades and homosexuals saying they are proud to be homosexuals aren't saying they are better than heterosexuals. They are saying they are proud of who they are in spite of people who say homosexuals are bad or inferior.

Black Lives Matter is similar. The movement isn't about putting black lives above all others. It is about denouncing the fact that black lives have less value to some people and institutions. Now that can be a debatable point, but saying the movement is racist because it wants to put black lives above others is attacking a strawman.

 

[Kramodlog]

You know whats really racist? The cast of Cats wasnt actually played by cats!!!

That was specist, not racist.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

You know whats really racist? The cast of Cats wasnt actually played by cats!!!

Agreed.