Future of WotC PDFs: Unofficial Sneak Preview?

[Dire Bare]

Oh, one more thing to add when comparing novel ebooks to RPG ebooks.

As I mentioned upthread, WotC is releasing all new titles and several old titles form their novel lines in various ebook formats. Which is cool (IMO). But why haven't they released ALL of their older novels in ebook format? (or, at least, all their older novels they have full rights too, which I believe is most, perhaps all, of them)

It's the "why bother" roadblock again. I'm personally a fan of WotC's RPG novels, and I own almost every single one of them in paperback. Yes, even the really terrible ones. I would love it if WotC released ALL of these older stories in Kindle format . . . I would snap them all up and liquidate my physical collection (it makes moving a pain in the ass).

But really, how many folks would purchase an ebook of the First Quest novels alongside me? Or the Rose Estes Greyhawk novels? Enough to justify the time, bother, and cost to WotC? Unfortunately for me, I assume not.

It's no different for the older RPG titles. Hosting ebook versions of these classics isn't free for WotC by any means, and they have to decide if its worth it. I know a lot of us on these messageboards are positively drooling with the thought of owing the complete electronic libray of classic TSR/WotC RPG books . . . . but we are hardly a representative group of WotC's customer base as a whole.

I'm not saying that it ISN'T worth WotC's time, effort, and money to supply us with these products . . . . just that those of us armchair quarterbacking really aren't in a position to know. And so I reject any assertions that WotC is run by a pack of fools who are just going to leave good money sitting on the table. They might make the "wrong" or a "suboptimal" decision . . . but we'll never truly know unless we ply a current or former WotC staffer with expertise in this area with strong drink . . . .

 

[abel_marko]

Maybe not, but the cost to "make" the next PDF is likely much closer to 0 than the cost of printing another book.

For this logic to result in `cheap' PDFs, the first book must cost around US$200,000 (more for big books, less for small ones). I don't think anyone wants that.

You might be interested in the series by a notable SF/F author on How Books Are Published, with the caveat that things like RPG books are going to involve even more people (usually, many more people) than novels.

The real tension, of course, is that PDFs aren't as *valuable* to most people as physical books, while still costing the producers nearly as much as the physical books (yes, physical materials have an additional overhead, but that's still subject to volume discounts, just like ebooks -- ebooks just reduce many of those low numbers even lower). Pirated or home-made ebooks can be useful in some circumstances, but simply aren't as valuable to most of us as the professionally-produced version, since they stopped selling the professionally-produced PDFs (before that, the pirated versions *were* the professionally-produced versions).

I have an ipad, and I use it for game reference frequently. Before I had the ipad, I did the same thing (but with more pain) on on iphone. I would certainly love to have a viable electronic version of the D&D books that didn't require skirting/breaking the law. Sadly, the best options right now are probably the horribly closed Kindle/iBooks pathways.

 

[karolusb]

Printing (smaller presses pay a fortune for this, WOTC has major economies of scale going on) $2.00 for a $30 hardcover.

Storage (.04 cubic feet per book) lets shoot the moon and say $.12 (which assumes 3 months of storage at 1000% of the price of space here in Seattle).

I can't imagine a difference labor to move (I am assuming you mean sales staff, as otherwise I think would be covered in the storage cost, you just replace a phone tech with a web tech)

Does WOTC print in canada? My guess would be $.2-$.3 per book for WOTC sized print runs. (Assuming BAX which has much much better freight rates than UPS, other companies might be even better).

True, middlemen have advantages though (like getting paid for thousands of books at once, rather than waiting for individual purchases to trickle in). That said this works out to around $18 a book assuming they can actually compeltely eliminate it.

The gamestore gets nothing from WOTC (the middlemen already took that piece of the pie, and do with it what they will).

True, though I doubt WOTC is that concerned with the level of profitiability that can be made from half a dozen ancient PDF sales a month.


Excepting the distributor WOTC save a whopping $2.32 on a PDF over a physical copy. I doubt it is easy to circumvent distribution regardless of model. WOTC doesn't want to match amazon prices, as it devalues thier products. They don't want to be handle many of the direct marketing aspects of cutting the middleman (they tried it, sold it off). So the benefits to them from these changes are minimal, and undercutting thier distributors by selling to customers for similar prices (even if it is a PDF) is going to result headaches for little relevant gain (if buying it at 40% off would have convinced you, you would have already bought from amazon, and the middleman who manages D&D also distributes magic et. al.).

This is not to say they won't adopt a model of some sort, just meaning to point out that these decisions are more complicated than "PDF's are cheaper" indicates.

It may have to do with the whole distribution cycle.

First off, there is no printing.

Second off, there is no physical storeage.

Third off, there is no labor to move the product.

Fourth off, there is no cost to transport the material.

Fifth off, there is, or does not have to be, a middleman (i.e. distributor)

Sixth off, there is no, or does not have to be, third party, (i.e. Gamestore).

Seventh off, titles can remain 'evergreen' by being PDF thanks to a lack of printing costs.

Entitlement, in my mind, especially since I work in a warehouse and know what goes into the physical part of the picking and shipping of product, doesn't enter my mind at all.

Off the radar from any of those factors, we already have efficient warehouses like Amazon.com, Buy.com and occassionally Wallmart.com and others selling the product to close to 40% off. Entitlement? Hell, it should be more than 50% off.

 

[SteveC]

Why are there so many who think/hope PDFs can/will be offered for half price or less? Printing is no where near 50% of the cost of the books. This is either serious daydreaming or some huge feelings of entitlement.

Perhaps because 50% of cover price is extremely generous? Without two levels of distribution involved, each of which roughly double the cost, I'd say that's a pretty good deal for something where you don't have to worry about paper, binding, printing, housing and shipping.

You also don't have to spend anything extra on art, writing and editing, because those were already done for the print product. Perhaps you're not familiar with this, but at the time of launch, a set of PDFs were linked from the printer markups WotC used themselves. Those PDFs were very basic, but serviceable for the people who used (and still use) them. It really irked me at the time was that my only method for getting a PDF legally was too much for me to spend, but lots of folks were getting the same thing for free! I did without, which I'll continue to do if the price stays the same.

I have done work with printing, and used inDesign to make professional books, and making an ebook is not as simple as printing to a PDF by any means (bookmarks were a real problem for the first couple of projects I did) but the expense is trivial in comparison to, say, art, which is already in the budget!

And even if I grant you that somehow there are expenses which make selling a $35 book $30 a necessity, all you've done is ensure you will fail as a product, since consumers (myself included) don't feel it's worth it in any significant degree.

Let me be clear: I buy PDFs, but not for $5 off of the cover price. That's too rich for my blood. And it WotC decides that market isn't worth it, too bad. Of course when you're competing with a cost of $0 (pirated PDFs--something I don't endorse in any way at all) you'd better be bringing something fantastic to the market.

We shall see.

EDIT: on thinking about it, I don't see anything that's going to change anyone's minds here. This is an old argument, and one that's going to get me in trouble if I continue with it. I'll bow out rather than be "that guy."

 

[DracoSuave]

They tried it, they didn't like how it worked out, they ended it.

Things that have meaningfully changed since then: Nothing.

Something has to change before they'll dip their feet in that pool again. Whether that change is good (better technology), or whether it's bad (middle man goes bankrupt) remains to be seen.

However their decision to not provide PDFs is based on the current situation and current technological environment... if it was the right decision to stop when they did, it continues to be the right decision now.

 

[Greatwyrm]

However their decision to not provide PDFs is based on the current situation and current technological environment... if it was the right decision to stop when they did, it continues to be the right decision now.

Then, logically, they should resume pdf sales immediately.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Then, logically, they should resume pdf sales immediately.

If only that were logical......

 

[I'm A Banana]

I gotta say, PDFs of RPG books now annoy me. At first, it was awesome. Now, I just find them hard to read on screen. Sure, it's great if you print them. But I'm not printing anything over 50 pages. Even 50 pages is overdoing it.

This opinion confuses me.

If you want to read a book, why don't you just buy the hardcopy of the book?

PDF's have a lot of use: reference, storage, access, cut-n-paste, cheaper cost...

But if what you want is, ultimately, a hardcover book, why wouldn't you just buy that in the first place?

I mean, iTunes purchases are not the same thing as hearing live music, or even buying vinyl. Clearly, the format changes the way you use the thing. Why wouldn't that be true?

 

[TarionzCousin]

This opinion confuses me.

If you want to read a book, why don't you just buy the hardcopy of the book?

What?!?

 

[UHF]

I'm not sure how anyone is concluding WOTC was Evil here. <- they aren't. Look at post #3 ~ Moderator

First... many companies are confused about downloading and piracy. If WOTC pulled their stuff and blamed piracy... Who cares? Piracy with 4e is rampant however. Many companies have the same level of paranoia and fear regarding this.

Second... online sales are worthless. Read the book by Mongooses owner. 60 units a month world wide constitutes a super platinum best seller. (He knows... he's done it.) This is beer money. Not something real businesses get excited about.

Third... the cost of producing a PDF is the same as a book, less the printing of course. If a book can't sell in real form, the game is no where.

Fourth.. WOTC is listening. I think they want to do whatever they can to shut up the angry old guard. Now what are they going to complain about?

Fifth.. The cost of producing a PDF is the same as a book. The problems are worse though. Sales are insignificant in ebooks. To get volume, you need real books in brick and mortar shops.

Sixth.. I want all my books in digital format myself. If WOTC is selling it.. great! Cutting out the middlemen.. RPGDriveThrough... great plan. I don't know about you guys, but I want it in both formats.