Gabe of Penny Arcade Slams the OSR

[AllisterH]

People do know this is perhaps the BEST advertisement for OSR, right?

Penny arcade internet traffic ranking is freaking higher than EITHER WOTC or Freaking HASBRO!!!.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Between the porn star "kerfuffle" and now this, it's actually getting a little embarrassing to be an OSR guy. It's like a few hyper-sensitive Pesto Goodfeather types are giving the rest of us a bad rep. Man, it used to be all about the music... er, I mean the gaming...

You are not responsible for the behavior of other people. Even though I understand the sentiment. Sometimes you wonder "how can people that like what I like be so unreasonable?" Just remember that you're not identical just because you have a common interest.

Gabe's clearly saying that it's good for players to see the game's history and how it evolved.

Of course, evolution in this context can easily cosntructed as another "slam against the OSR", because some people think that evolution is a process that always leads to something better.

Well, in a way it does. Better under a certain context/environment. If you're in a different context, in a different environment, not so much. Might in fact suck. Evolving to walk on land doesn't help much when you want to swim in the ocean.

 

[The Shaman]

Keep in mind when I use the term OSR, I am speaking about what I believe is about it becoming more about advocacy and the "movement" itself than just the simple fact of creating and playing games. Too many people worry about the advocacy part about it--is it growing, who is saying bad things about it, continuous meta-commentary, etc. It's getting a bit about politics, for lack of a better term.

Yeah, 'cause gamers who enjoy other editions or clones never worry about if their edition is growing, who's saying bad things about them, or engage in continuous meta-commentary.

 

[Dire Bare]

Yeah, 'cause gamers who enjoy other editions or clones never worry about if their edition is growing, who's saying bad things about them, or engage in continuous meta-commentary.

Ah, yes! The C4bal! *grin*

 

[JohnRTroy]

Yeah, 'cause gamers who enjoy other editions or clones never worry about if their edition is growing, who's saying bad things about them, or engage in continuous meta-commentary.

Your statement appears to be one of the hypersensitivity I mentioned before. What you just stated is equivalent to "yeah, well, YOU do it DO!".

I'm critical of that behavior no matter what edition it is.

However, I expect better of the old school players, because the majority lived during most of its heyday. So that makes the median age of us somewhere between 40 and 50 years old. I'm more willing to give a teenager or a college aged kid a little more benefit of the doubt since I was young too once and I had some of that fanaticism/hypersensitivity going.

But as you get older you realize that life is constantly changing all the time and some of these little things are not as important in the long scheme of things. We also can (or at least should) understand that things are constantly changing and while it is okay to be critical of some changes, you also have to accept some thing will die and be replaced by new things.

So I expect us to set an example to people who are younger. If older gamers end up being more susceptible to the so-called "nerd rage", how can they teach their children to get along with others of different opinions on things that matter.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Your statement appears to be one of the hypersensitivity I mentioned before. What you just stated is equivalent to "yeah, well, YOU do it DO!".

I'm critical of that behavior no matter what edition it is.

However, I expect better of the old school players, because the majority lived during most of its heyday. So that makes the median age of us somewhere between 40 and 50 years old. I'm more willing to give a teenager or a college aged kid a little more benefit of the doubt since I was young too once and I had some of that fanaticism/hypersensitivity going.

But as you get older you realize that life is constantly changing all the time and some of these little things are not as important in the long scheme of things. So I expect us to set an example to people who are younger. If older gamers end up being more susceptible to the so-called "nerd rage", how can they teach their children to get along with others of different opinions on things that matter.

Agreed and I'd give XP but I must spread it around more.

 

[nedjer]

Not of if they're all playing the wrong games in the wrong way...

*runs*

No need to run. It's fact that the vast majority of the hobby is D&D/ AD&D or retro-clone D&D. There's also no controversy in seeing a distinction between D&D as fairly rules light and AD&D and most derivatives as hexy battle games. If that's what people want to play and praise they shouldn't get bothered by someone saying they're 'wrong games' so long as they're secure in the knowledge they enjoy them.

Those who make you feel the need to run are in a different boat. There's something about the same old, same old that ain't clicking anymore. A rotten apple called routine somewhere in the trusty old barrel. They'll try, furiously, to dig it out but it's already spread by then . . .

 

[The Shaman]

Your statement appears to be one of the hypersensitivity I mentioned before.

Sorry, JRT, but you really picked the wrong gamer here. I don't play D&D, so I have no dog in this hunt.

I've looked at the retroclones and I don't care for them - if I wanted to play AD&D, then that's what I'd play, not OSRIC, and I don't like Swords and Wizardry or Labyrinth Lord any more than I liked their original incarnations, which is to say, not a whole heckuva lot - though I appreciate the fact that they provide a legal basis for publishing new adventures and settings for older editions, even if I have no interest in such products myself.

I also disagree with what some old school advocates consider to be properties of old school games, such as the assertions that old school is "rules light" or that old school begins and ends with OD&D.

So it would be difficult for me to be hypersensitive in defense of something in which I hold no stake.

What you just stated is equivalent to "yeah, well, YOU do it DO!"

"Yeah, well, YOU do it TOO!" is just an inartful and inelegant way of calling out hypocrisy.

I'm critical of that behavior no matter what edition it is.

Fair 'nuff.

I'll be sure to look for your criticism of 4e and Pathfinder fans who worry about if their edition is growing, who's saying bad things about them, or engage in continuous meta-commentary from here on out.

However, I expect better of the old school players, because the majority lived during most of its heyday.

And I don't expect fans of a game to be held to some sort of "elder statemen" pretensions.

 

[Dire Bare]

So I expect us to set an example to people who are younger. If older gamers end up being more susceptible to the so-called "nerd rage", how can they teach their children to get along with others of different opinions on things that matter.

Can't give you more XP yet!

While it would be nice if we could expect more civilized behavior from the older folks, it just doesn't work that way. Not in gaming, not anywhere! I don't think older folks are necessarily more cranky and unfair than the whippersnappers, but certainly not any less!!!

In gaming and other nerdy pastimes, however, I do get the impression that "nerd-rage" is a disease the older fans are more susceptible too . . . if I may generalize . . . (and, being almost 38, I consider myself a part of this older gamer demographic)

Younger nerds have so much nerdy goodness to absorb these days, including many remakes and rehashes of older properties, that I think in general they are more accepting of things "different" and "new" and fear change less.

Us older folks, in our own youth, often felt the need to stake claim to our favorite areas of geekdom and keep the faith pure . . . . like clutching desperately to floating debris in the ocean to keep ourselves safe from harm from the mundane world . . . .

 

[Dire Bare]

Sorry, JRT, but you really picked the wrong gamer here. I don't play D&D, so I have no dog in this hunt.

Which is why John used the word "appears" in what you quoted. That's how I took your post as well.

I'll be sure to look for your criticism of 4e and Pathfinder fans who worry about if their edition is growing, who's saying bad things about them, or engage in continuous meta-commentary from here on out.

So, upon criticizing OSR zealots in this thread, it is John's duty to hunt down 4e and Pathfinder zealots to make things "fair"? We are not in debate club here, but on a hobby message board.

I get the feeling that John calls them not only AS he sees them, but WHEN he sees them, and doesn't hunt for zealots to criticize to spread the fairness around.