Game of Thrones + Black Company = Dark Age Fun

Imperialus

Explorer
I'm posting this mostly as a sounding board for some ideas that have been rattling around in my head for some time now. it's a little bit stream of consciousness at this point and defiantly needs fleshing out but I figured I'd gather opinions or suggestions based on what people think of this.

I've been toying with the idea of running a D&D game set in a low magic world inspired by the mythologies and beliefs of pagan England Ireland and Norway. The tech level would be late dark age around the turn of the millennium but without the christianization. Magic would also be present and functional but mostly manifesting through minor spells like omens, hexes, and enchanted tokens or runes placed on swords, helmets and shields.

I plan on ripping directly (or modifying) many of the classes from GoO's Game of Thones. I also plan on taking the reputation, influence and combat rules. I figure this will allow me to simulate the prickly honor and complicated web of loyalties that typifies celtic/norse culture. The combat rules are deadly enough (especially since most of the heavy armour won't be available) and though some of the classes will require modification to move away from GrrM's focus on the mounted knight I think I can make it work.

From the Black Company I plan on using the magic system. I'll need to heavily modify it though and change it's focus from flashy spells to minor divinations, hexes, protection and mind affecting spells. I also want to simplify the system considerably but I'm not sure how to go about doing it. The potential power of a wizard would defiantly be lowered (no dedicated spell casting class) though there would be a class that has knowledge arcana as a class skill probably based of the maester. If anyone has any ideas for how I could do this but still keep spell casting a viable option for PC's to pursue I'd like to hear it.

As for the rest I also plan on including Orcs, Dwarves, and Elves as playable races. I realize this differs from their mythological roots but I think I can work them in as separate yet distinct cultures. I'd view the Dwarves and Humans as being loosely allied largely against their common enemies Elves and Orcs. Orcs inhabit vast tracts of wilderness to the north living in small clans that raid back and forth with their human neighbors to the south east and their dwarven neighbors to the south west. Elves are sea reavers inhabiting a continent to the south and raiding up and down the coast fighting anyone they come across. The races would be quite similar culturally in many respects but treat each other very differently and with enough differentiation between cultures to make deals between races difficult. There will be no alignment (using the reputation system instead) so orcs are not irredeemably evil, simply short tempered violent expansionistic and more than willing to use their strength at arms to get what they want.

As play begins the PC's would be members of a household of considerable power whos holdings boarder the orcish tribes. The first few adventures would focus around them battling an orc tribe to the north and try to forge a lasting peace treaty between their house and the orcs. I'd then try to move the campaign in a more political direction once the players have had a chance to get their feet wet with the influence/reputation rules plus giving them a healthy dose of combat by getting them involved in the tribal politicking between various factions. I’ll likely have a group of 5-6 players so I’ll provide about 10 pregenerated characters with back stories written so that they fit into the house. I’ll vary the characters considerably however, possibly even including a few non-humans who are a part of the house serving as wards, hostages or even slaves.

As far as the human political structure goes I'm thinking that the various tribes owe their allegiance to a king who would be more akin to a marquees or duke in terms of how much power and influence he holds. The PC's would be members of one such royal household. Every 10 years there would be a gathering of kings where a high king would be elected from among the equals (similar to the Holy Roman Emperor). The high king's position would be largely powerless but he would serve as a rallying point during times of crisis such as an invasion or other catastrophe.

*edit* BTW does anyone know of any Game of Thrones communities that are still active? Now that GoO has shut down their forums arn't around anymore. Anyone know where the fans still hang out?
 
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Er, well. . . there's this place: http://z7.invisionfree.com/AGOT_RPG/index.php - not sure if it's particularly alive, but it's got the right name at least.

Also, there appear to be some signs of communication here: http://www.goofanforums.com/

However, you still get a fair amount of AGoT talk on ENWorld and other general RPG sites. This particular forum (d20/OGL) sees a reasonable amount, with certain dedicated fans cropping up at nearly every opportunity.


Anyway, your campaign ideas sound good. I'll have to check back in and see how it's all going soon, when I get the time.

Cheers. :)
 

I too like your campaign idea very much. However, I think you should focus on the setting, not on writing tons of houserules, which is tricky and time-consuming. Why not try something like Grim Tales (BadAxe game) or Legends of Dark Ages (RPGobject), that would allow you what you seek (in terms of rules) relatively easily, although probably not perfectly... (Just my 2 cents suggestion anyway.)
 

I can't speak to exacting specifics, being half asleep in a computer lab and lacking AGoT, BCCS, or even True Sorcery on hand, but I can give some general suggetions.

I plan on ripping directly (or modifying) many of the classes from GoO's Game of Thones. I also plan on taking the reputation, influence and combat rules. I figure this will allow me to simulate the prickly honor and complicated web of loyalties that typifies celtic/norse culture. The combat rules are deadly enough (especially since most of the heavy armour won't be available) and though some of the classes will require modification to move away from GrrM's focus on the mounted knight I think I can make it work.

AGoT's definitely got a good range of classes, that's for sure. My reaction as a player to the reputation and influence rules was that there were never enough points to go around. It was a frustrating system for me to use - the long and short of it being the system didn't turn out how I thought it would and, IMO, to get better mileage for it you'd do well to increase the frequency with which those points are gained. It ended up feeling pretty useless and restrictive by the end of my playing time. Good idea but the execution needs tweaking.

Also, Shock Value rocks. So does rolling for defense. Also, pay attention to one very important change to combat - no stat adds to Attack Rolls automatically. Feats are used to add a relevent stat to attack and defense rolls - so bringing along all the feats is going to be fairly necessary. This adds for a lot more flexibility but the feats only tie into one weapon from what I remember. I found it very cool, especially in a game where you're not swapping out weapons whenever the next Bright New Shiney crops up. Also, again, Shock Value rocks. :D

Low HP. I can't emphasize how much this takes getting used to. Its interesting on the one hand but a huge pain in the butt on the other. Seriously. Jump out a first story window, botch a roll, and you're at like 2 HP for the next week. I'd really recommend considering using the Reserve Pool rule (Iron Heroes style, but I believe it originates in Unearthed Arcana) just to give players a SMALL buffer outside of combat. It will mess with the healing rates out of combat, which is part of what makes combat such a serious endeavour, so its an edged suggestion but I figured I'd make it anyway.

ALSO! I highly highly recommend stealing the BCCS Grievous Injuries (triggered by hitting for double the target's SV) for use with AGoT combat - we house ruled that all permanent injuries on that table (losing fingers, eyes, or the stat/skill damage) were temporary on PC's (not NPCs) unless they suffered an infection.

From the Black Company I plan on using the magic system.

That's what I like to hear. :D

If anyone has any ideas for how I could do this but still keep spell casting a viable option for PC's to pursue I'd like to hear it.

This should be fairly easy since, if anything, the BCCS/TS system is extremely modular. You have control of the Talent list. You have control of all the DCs. You have control of the augmentation costs. You have control of the casting skill. Add, modify, or remove Talents as you see fit. Lacking a Casting class I would recommend doing away with Magnitude requirements on all Talents and simply let the base DC's you use/assign to be an organic soft cap on practical casting.

Removal of a base casting class will do a lot of the work for you in regards to keeping magic low, simple, and not-flashy. It gets rid of the magnitude bonuses to the Casting Skill, as well as relegates the Casting Skill as a Cross Class Skill for everyone. This, IMO, seems to definitely be the way to go for what you want, and it will do a lot of the work for you. I'd recommend requiring the taking of the Dabbler feat (or a similar feat you make up and name) but once again either do not restrict them to the Dabbler list of talents or do, and require another feat to access the other stuff.

However, do not make it too feat heavy as this will make the magic system very inaccessable since there are a number of other magic related feats (The one that gives an additional +1 to spell energy comes to mind) that are very handy, if not required. This brings me to yet another organic check on the magic system - the removal of the casting class, and hence the Magnitudes, means that casters aren't getting free Spell Energy as they level. Their only recourse being that feat I mentioned to gain more. This in and of itself will also limit "flashy casting".

That's all for now - I may chime in later if any specifics come to mind.

BTW, cool idea for a campaign. :D
 

Turanil said:
I too like your campaign idea very much. However, I think you should focus on the setting, not on writing tons of houserules, which is tricky and time-consuming. Why not try something like Grim Tales (BadAxe game) or Legends of Dark Ages (RPGobject), that would allow you what you seek (in terms of rules) relatively easily, although probably not perfectly... (Just my 2 cents suggestion anyway.)

Well the only thing that is going to get a lot of houseruling is going to be the magic system, and that with the goal of keeping a skill based system like the BC has but ramping back the power level and the complexity of modifiers that enter into the system. Just a couple of examples of what I am thinking of doing with this.

PC1: Is the son of the house's master at arms. While he is an very capable warrior he has the second sight and can enter into a trance and fortell the future. He also sometimes sees things that others don't. He mostly keeps this ability to himself for fear of being blamed for any ill luck that befalls someone he has a vision about.

PC2: Is an older warrior of middleing age. While he is past his prime as a combatant he oftentimes travels with war parties to use his uncanny abilities to aid them in combat. He typically casts small blessings on the band and carries a rune carved sword that is well known to be magical. He also serves as an advisor to the king and consults with him in all manners spiritual.

In terms of mechanical effects I would want PC1 to be a warrior first and formost having used a feat and perhaps a few skill points.

PC2's magical abilities would have cost 2 feats one identical to the 1st PCs a baseline "magic Blood" type feat taken at character creation plus a second one that would allow him to enchant runes on his sword to increase it's attack potential. Perhaps a 3rd feat would allow someone to cast runes of protection on a shield or suit of armour. He'd likely have around 10 points dedicated to his "magic skill".

@ igavoskoga: I'll have to look into the reputation/influance rules. How much faster do you feel would be appropriate for them to go up?

As far as other house rules go most of them would just be minor things like removing plate armour, increasing the cost of chainmail, tweaking some class abilities to get rid of mounted bonus' ect.
 
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Sounds cool to me! I am tinkering with a homebrew using AGoT rules, Magical Medieval Society, & Silk Road. Yet that is down the road as I have two campaigns in Westros at the moment. But good luck with your campaign. It sounds like it would be fun! Maester Luwin
 

here is a very early draft/brainstorming of the magic rules.

Keep in mind that magic is not supposed to be the primary focus of a character. It exists for flavor more than anything else. I'd appriciate any thoughts people have.
Magic:

Magic is a wild and unpredictable force. No one is completely sure where it comes from and each culture has their own interpretation of how it works. Magical ability is an inborn trait that passes down through families from one generation to another though it may oftentimes skip one or more generations resurfacing unexpectedly decades, sometimes centuries since the last family member was born with the gift of magic.

Before anyone can cast a spell they must start with the feat “Blood of the Gods”. This feat can only be taken at character creation. Blood of the Gods gives the character the Precognition talent and allows them to pick one additional talent. For every 5 ranks in Magic Use a spellcaster can pick one additional talent

Using magic:

When a spellcaster wants to cast a spell he rolls his Magic Use against a given talent’s DC. If the target number is met the spell goes off pretty much as expected. If the DC is beaten by a significant number (5 or more) the DM can enhance the effect of the spell, visions become clearer, hex’s work faster ect. By the same token however if the roll fails by a significant amount (5 or more) then not only does the spell fail but it has some unintended and usually harmful effect on the caster. A vision might prove false, a hex may backfire on the caster, ect.
 

I was thinking of doing something similar, dark age flavored game; saxon raiders, Vikings, rune magic, and Teutonic inspired mythology.

I am, however, looking for d20 rules I can add to my D&D game, rather than a complete tear-down and rebuild. Any ideas?

I was briefly considering the R&R:Excailibur, but I'm not sure if provides what I'm looking for.
 

I just recently picked up the Black Company Camapign Setting and AGoT. I, too, immediately saw the potential for a great game between the two books, though my approach is a bit less work-intensive (I simply plan to use the AGoT book in place of the D&D core books where the BCCS is concerned). Still, it's nice to know that I'm not the only person who sees some potential for great fun here :)
 

Do NOT use the Black Company magic system and expect to be happy.

Green Ronin did not spend enough time running the numbers on the magic system they have laid out. Instead I would pick up something else for a magic system, well, ANYTHING else really...

To me it seems you are trying to use the worst part of the Black Company. Though I don't know the other setting, I know that the grittiness of Black Company might match well with Mike Mearl's Iron Heroes. Try Gary Gygax's Lejendary Adventures for the magic system, as it is a point-based system, and tweak the numbers to match the difficulties you are using.

Or you could just use a typical D&D magic system with spell advancements only every 2 levels, and that only 1 in 100,000 people can use magic at all... I digress, but anything is better than the messy BC magic.
 

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