Game of Thrones or Black Company description?

[JoeGKushner]

D20 is only a system and if it is d20 that means that it goes by the guidelines set by Wizards of the Coast,

To a point.

Take Spycraft. It's certainly not d20 Modern and not really useable with D&D.

Take B5. You're not going to have characters from that be compatible with Star Wars.

Now if you look at Wheel of Time, there are some compatibiltiy issues, especially as it's a pre 3.5 book, but overall, it follows the D&Disms if you will.

I just get tired of seeing game designers trying to 'stay' true to the feel of the book and then slapping the d20 label on it, especially when they're doing two versions of the game. I'm hoping that Talislanta d20 is easy as pie to slip into standard D&D. I'd love to be able to have a Thrall guide a Warforged on what is good in life. I don't think I'll be able to do that with Game of Thrones.

 

[ecliptic]

Want Westros in D&D? There is a nice little Dragon article just for that.

The fact is, trying to change and adapt a setting for rule mechanics is purely bad design. Running around and hack n slashing is not what A Game of Thrones is about. It shouldn't be what its about. People die easily and when hurt it takes along time for them to heal. That is how it should be. Political intrigue and the fear that you may actually have a very good chance to die in combat is gritty. Where being injured is just as dangerous as death, as someone could take advantage of your weakness in the game of thrones.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

To a point.

Take Spycraft. It's certainly not d20 Modern and not really useable with D&D.

Take B5. You're not going to have characters from that be compatible with Star Wars.

Now if you look at Wheel of Time, there are some compatibiltiy issues, especially as it's a pre 3.5 book, but overall, it follows the D&Disms if you will.

I just get tired of seeing game designers trying to 'stay' true to the feel of the book and then slapping the d20 label on it, especially when they're doing two versions of the game. I'm hoping that Talislanta d20 is easy as pie to slip into standard D&D. I'd love to be able to have a Thrall guide a Warforged on what is good in life. I don't think I'll be able to do that with Game of Thrones.

Well, but by the same token you Star Wars characters aren't all that compatable with DnD characters.

I think Black Company characters would fit DnD just fine. There would be issues, but nothing too awful.

I certainly do think that you can do Game of Thrones with DnD, with some adjustments, but I don't think it would necessarilly be unbalanced or incompatable. They are different environments which means something akin to culture shock going one way or the other, but otherwise...

Course, I'm not too up on the new game except that they seem to have a lot of social dynamics which seems unavoidable.

 

[JoeGKushner]

I'm not saying that Dragon did justice to Westros at all. I don't imagine there being any paladins or even alignment. I do imagine perhaps, something like d20 Modern's use of backgrounds and allegiances though.

You can do all of those things by tweaking elements like massive damage threshold, eliminating magic items, restructing core classes (ala Black Company where there are no paladins, spellcasting bards or rangers), and still keeping the characters pretty standard for other D&D campaigns.

Maybe if the GoO game has a lot of game rules on how to do social duels or how nobles interact in a rules fashion, it'll make sense to twist the core mechanics, but if the arguement is d20 can't handle grim and gritty, the arguement is proven flawed.

 

[ecliptic]

Who is saying d20 can't do grim n' gritty? A Game of Thrones proves that the system can.

I see a bunch of whiners here and on RPGNet complaining that in somehow they are doing the d20 system a disservice by changing the mechanics so much. Yet you people would rather slap <insert random popular license here> on the d20 system and ship it out the door.

 

[JoeGKushner]

For me, it's not really d20 though when you start changing the hit dice of things from say, every level to just the first nine levels or when you start making other character changes based on character modification being the sole way to create a grim and gritty system.

Opinions may vary of coruse. To me, the strength of the d20 brand is that you should be able to mix and match elements form many different setting and campaigns with minimum fuss.

 

[maddman75]

Another feature that must be mention is that in Martin's world it is very dangerous for even experienced warriors to enter battle. There's one scene that sticks out in my mind as an example of something D&D can't do.

Jaime Lannister, mentioned above, is easily one of the fiercest and most deadly swordsmen in Westeros. In one scene, he enters a battlescarred village, and when he opens the door to the inn a peasant boy points a crossbow at him. Jaime stops and puts his hands up, but then warns the kid that he'd better kill him with the first shot, because he wouldn't get a second.

I don't have a problem with the rules being massively changed. I look forward to it, actually.

 

[Endur]

I'm a fan of keeping the rules the same and modifying the background setting.

i.e.

Fighters, Clerics, Wizards, and Rogue classes all remain the same.

BUT ...

Maybe there are no clerics in the world.

Maybe no one can have more than five levels in the Wizard class.

This results in a vastly different world than standard D&D.

No need to change rules. Changing the background changed the world.

 

[Thorin Stoutfoot]

Another feature that must be mention is that in Martin's world it is very dangerous for even experienced warriors to enter battle. There's one scene that sticks out in my mind as an example of something D&D can't do.

But Joe was talking about d20. And The Black Company Campaign Setting does all that well. (Especially when you consider that even the 30th level wizards, etc can be brought down in a surprise round by well-prepared characters)

 

[JoeGKushner]

Another feature that must be mention is that in Martin's world it is very dangerous for even experienced warriors to enter battle. There's one scene that sticks out in my mind as an example of something D&D can't do.

I guess because I've played Black Company, Grim Tales and Call of Cthluhu d20, that I don't see the problem. Take Massive Damage Threshold. It's one of the easiest 'dials' if you will, to determine how fatal combat may be. By making it something like level + Con, most people aren't going to want to get involved in fights. Other factors have been used like making it 10 plus con modifier and I've seen other examples.

Maybe it's just because I've seen so many varieties that made the changes not to the characters, but to the setting behind it, that I find myself going for the books that are easiest for me to use as if or in a d20 campaign.