GAME OF THRONES SEASON 8--Final Run-- Part 3

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Oh yeah, I also tend to think the Dothraki charge was dumb. In real life, as far as I know, much of the power of cavalry charges come from its ability to break lines through a combination of fear and momentum. The Dothraki charged headlong into a literally *wall* of undead, and the only thing that accomplishes is being surrounded by zombies and quickly dying to their counterattack. They should not have even attempted that without knowing what the enemy battle lines actually looked like.

Heavy Cavalry would smash into the lines to break them. Light cavalry like the Dothraki would be used to hit the flanks of the enemy and peel away, harry retreating foes, or to screen and allow your troops to retreat. All of those depend on knowing exactly where the enemy is.
 

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Zardnaar

Legend
Light cavalry is good once lines are broken or vs light infantry. It's not so good vs heavy infantry, archers, heavy cavalry.

Stupid cavalry charges have been done IRL though it happens.

Arya getting the kill with the dagger from season in was sweet though.
 


Zardnaar

Legend
Sure, but can you name one that happened at night in the pitch black, with torches in hand to remove all night vision, and across snow and icy conditions? ;)

Maybe there was one of those battles in Russia fought against the Tartars IIRC in appalling conditions in the far north in twilight. I'll have to look into it it's been a while.

The commanders in the show haven't been depicted as idiots though. It's just more season 7 though rushing things.
 
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Zaukrie

New Publisher
Not every commander is good at strategy. Dany and Jon have shown they aren't. That didn't bother me. The plot armor of the main characters did.
 

Istbor

Dances with Gnolls
While I have been re-watching the older seasons to just... look for minor details and refresh the oldest bits in my mind, I come to realize something.

It is really kind of dumb, especially at this point to expect perfect and sometimes even common sense tactics from this fantasy show.

While it is true that there are some battles or sides that use good tactics, most don't seem to. It is more for effect.

Like... those assaulting King's Landing in the Battle for the Black Water. Most of the infantry didn't even have shields. Not just proper, crafted shields, but not even some bits of wood to stop an arrow. Shields were cheap. Unless you are telling me, that out of Stanis' 100K army, he choose to lead the assault off with the poorest equipped men?

Heck, some of the guys WITH shields had them strapped to their backs or didn't bother to raise them once they took arrow fire.

I no longer expect GoT armies to employ proper tactics. I sit back and enjoy whatever atmosphere the manufactured battle was designed to portray.
 

Mercurius

Legend
I read somewhere someone comparing the Night King to the golden snitch in Harry Potter's quidditch game. It is just a silly rule, making the rest of the game superfluous. Kill the Night King, win the whole thing.

And yeah, the White Walkers being nothing more than a cool looking entourage was rather...underwhelming.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
I read somewhere someone comparing the Night King to the golden snitch in Harry Potter's quidditch game. It is just a silly rule, making the rest of the game superfluous. Kill the Night King, win the whole thing.

It's a well-known trope.

Also see Independence Day, The Phantom Menace, The Last Starfighter, Army of Darkness, and a hundred more!
 

Mercurius

Legend
It's a well-known trope.

Also see Independence Day, The Phantom Menace, The Last Starfighter, Army of Darkness, and a hundred more!

I realize that. It doesn't make it less silly, and of course it is important how it is implemented. Defeating the Night King just seemed too...easy. Such build-up and then, voila, done - and his entire army with him. Winter is no longer coming in one sneaky move by Arya.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
I realize that. It doesn't make it less silly, and of course it is important how it is implemented. Defeating the Night King just seemed too...easy. Such build-up and then, voila, done - and his entire army with him. Winter is no longer coming in one sneaky move by Arya.

Well yeah. That’s the fundamental problem with the trope. It’s never been satisfying.
 

As brought up earlier, I would have loved to see some of the other characters face off against the other White Walkers (several of our heroes have valerian steel swords after all). The way it was handled in this episode, the other White Walkers didn't get to do anything except walk behind the Nightking and die.

I can understand that they want the episode to look cool first and fore most, but when even lay persons comment on the lack of tactics, then you've goofed up. Also, I really wanted a cool twist in this episode. Have them lose for example.

But not all of it was bad. There were some amazing cinematic moments. I loved Arya's stealth bit in the library, and the way Melisandre met her end... to name a few.
 

Mercurius

Legend
Or how about this. The Night King dies and all of the army and dragon die, but the White Walker survive and take off, hiding out for the rest of the season. A spin-off series starts a year or so later, when the different White Walkers create "terrorist cells," and the rulers (Jon? Dany? Sansa?) create a special force to hunt them down, led by...the Hound.
 
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Mallus

Legend
It struck me earlier today that the Night King wasn't ever really the main antagonist, he's the foil to the main antagonist. Which is and always was people. Personified by Cersei and Euron at this point, but they could have been any of the bloody strivers trying for the Iron Throne. So I'm good with NK going down quick to Arya's knife work.

It also occurred to me that I was fine w/the "bad" tactics employed by Team Living because the whole point of those battle sequences was the living *lose*. They had no hope against this monstrous existential-threat-made-decaying-flesh army of death incarnate.

Had Team Living *triumphed* in battle using poor tactics, I might feel differently. Since the good outcome depended on a death-cult trained prophesied princess and not correct siege engine placement, again, I'm good.

Also, the bad tactics made for lovely cinema, especially the emotional whipsaw of Melisandre lighting the swords followed by the swords winking out in the darkness. Had I been watching a Twitch stream of Total War: Westeros and not HBO, I'd judge using different criteria.
 
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Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Yes, that's an excellent point. They use bad tactics, and they pay for it. If Arya hadn't Phantom Menaced the evil army at the end, it would have simply been a massacre. It's not a mistake -- that's the plot.

And you just have to look at real life for similar examples. Charge of the Light Brigade, anybody?
 

Istbor

Dances with Gnolls
I realize that. It doesn't make it less silly, and of course it is important how it is implemented. Defeating the Night King just seemed too...easy. Such build-up and then, voila, done - and his entire army with him. Winter is no longer coming in one sneaky move by Arya.

Yeah. I think summing it up in Too easy or voila, done is over simplifying what was sacrificed. Those were whole armies being chewed up, spat out, and then raised back up to kill what remained of their once-allies. The impact was there, as well as the stakes. Kill the necromancer and defeat his thralls in one fell stab.
 

pukunui

Legend
Good points, everyone! It reminds me of all those times where the PCs take out the BBEG more quickly and easily than the DM expected them too. That can feel anticlimactic too.

Let’s just hope the last three episodes top this one!

For one thing, now that Bran’s no longer in immediate danger, I’d like to see him actually do something useful with his powers again!

I kind of feel like Jaime, Tyrion, and Cersei need their own showdown. That family dynamic needs a payoff.
Yeah, fair enough! So what do you think will happen with Bronn?

Heh. Maybe Arya will change her face, come Cersei, and rule Westeros!
Maybe!
 
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Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
I was thinking today. Where did the Night King's white walker buddies come from? We see him leaving Jon to be overrun, as he closes in on the gates to Winterfell.....all by himself. He goes inside. None of his buddies are seen in any of the battle scenes inside Winterfell, yet when he comes up to Bran he has his full posse with him.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
I was thinking today. Where did the Night King's white walker buddies come from? We see him leaving Jon to be overrun, as he closes in on the gates to Winterfell.....all by himself. He goes inside. None of his buddies are seen in any of the battle scenes inside Winterfell, yet when he comes up to Bran he has his full posse with him.

It doesn't matter. How dare you expect the episode to make sense after 8 seasons. A few tweaks we're needed imho like some of them killing white walkers.
 

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