Game Pricing
- Thread starter Ace
- Start date
JohnNephew said:
Let me echo someone else's comment...i didn't know any game companies did this! Are you the only one? If not, you all need to advertise that fact a whole lot more. I'll bet a lot people don't know about it.
I don't buy things because they are cheap, but because i think (or know) that i'll like them. I don't know if i'd buy them with soda stains, though. But then i'm not hurting that bad for money. I know i have some players that are and i'll tell them to check out for this stuff next game night, count on it.
All game companies talk about how they love their customers, few prove it. Rock on, John.
Thorin Stoutfoot
First Post
extras vs. product
I don't think that most DMs have the artistic ability to draw their own. (I certainly can't! If you can, consider me impressed) Many DMs I know either crib from the internet, or do without. Regardless, illustrations that accurately reflect NPCs is darn near impossible to generate for your homebrew campaign, while for a pre-made campaign, the artist would have enough information to be able to draw a good illustration.
The same goes for voices. I'd certainly say that as a DM, I'd love for there to be other voices than my own available during a game. There was a company a few years back that was working on electronic "voice fonts", that would electronically morph your voice, real time into one male or female, old or young, rough or smooth, etc, and I'd buy THAT in a second for DMing use, but I don't see that as being realistic at a gaming table. A CD with major exposition and set pieces spoken by real actors made available for an adventure/scenario/campaign, however, would be convenient to use, easy to carry, and give the DM a break (and the players a break from the DM's voice).
I think the video thing for me would be superfluous (no easy access to a DVD player/TV in the same area where I'm playing), though a flash thing might not be, given the availability of community web-sites and shared access.
The one thing I'm surprised hasn't happened yet is the electronic BBS support. It's cheap, easy to do, and I'm surprised companies haven't started doing so. I guess it's not really a selling point per se, though for a high end product it would be expected.
I don't see minis as being a big draw, personally. I think that they require too much work if they require painting, and if they don't require painting, then they are likely to be plastic and not that attractive. I think counters, voice-CDs, soundtracks, tactical maps that can be geomorphed and illustrations to be more to the point for a campaign.
I don't think that most DMs have the artistic ability to draw their own. (I certainly can't! If you can, consider me impressed) Many DMs I know either crib from the internet, or do without. Regardless, illustrations that accurately reflect NPCs is darn near impossible to generate for your homebrew campaign, while for a pre-made campaign, the artist would have enough information to be able to draw a good illustration.
The same goes for voices. I'd certainly say that as a DM, I'd love for there to be other voices than my own available during a game. There was a company a few years back that was working on electronic "voice fonts", that would electronically morph your voice, real time into one male or female, old or young, rough or smooth, etc, and I'd buy THAT in a second for DMing use, but I don't see that as being realistic at a gaming table. A CD with major exposition and set pieces spoken by real actors made available for an adventure/scenario/campaign, however, would be convenient to use, easy to carry, and give the DM a break (and the players a break from the DM's voice).
I think the video thing for me would be superfluous (no easy access to a DVD player/TV in the same area where I'm playing), though a flash thing might not be, given the availability of community web-sites and shared access.
The one thing I'm surprised hasn't happened yet is the electronic BBS support. It's cheap, easy to do, and I'm surprised companies haven't started doing so. I guess it's not really a selling point per se, though for a high end product it would be expected.
Thorin Stoutfoot
First Post
sophisticated ready made adventures
Oh, and I disagree that a sophisticated ready made campaign can't be done for plot purposes. Take a look at say, Masks of Nylarthoetep, for instance.
The typical page count for a $28 adventure like Return to Temple of Elemental Evil is 192. For a $100 product, You could probably double or triple that, say 400 pages (Beyond the Mountains of Madness is that long, and is sold out now, so I don't see the size as a problem).
400 pages is enough pages to cover a lot of bases. Sure, the progression through "chapters" or adventures might be linear (it doesn't really have to be), but each individual adventure should have at least a couple of paths through it. A DM map that provided details on what levels characters are expected to be at the beginning and end of each section of the campaign would help the DM make adjustments.
It's all about saving the DM work. Last night I spent 15 minutes starting to put together props for a campaign. By the time I'm done with all the props I would have spent about 3-4 hours on prop making alone. A professional product would eliminate the prop making time AND give me really nice looking props ready made so I don't spend time making them, etc.
Oh, and I disagree that a sophisticated ready made campaign can't be done for plot purposes. Take a look at say, Masks of Nylarthoetep, for instance.
The typical page count for a $28 adventure like Return to Temple of Elemental Evil is 192. For a $100 product, You could probably double or triple that, say 400 pages (Beyond the Mountains of Madness is that long, and is sold out now, so I don't see the size as a problem).
400 pages is enough pages to cover a lot of bases. Sure, the progression through "chapters" or adventures might be linear (it doesn't really have to be), but each individual adventure should have at least a couple of paths through it. A DM map that provided details on what levels characters are expected to be at the beginning and end of each section of the campaign would help the DM make adjustments.
It's all about saving the DM work. Last night I spent 15 minutes starting to put together props for a campaign. By the time I'm done with all the props I would have spent about 3-4 hours on prop making alone. A professional product would eliminate the prop making time AND give me really nice looking props ready made so I don't spend time making them, etc.
The It's Man
Explorer
A $100 gamebook.. I wish Bugaboo 37th Ed was that cheap...
JohnNephew said:
I've just bee looking at your fire sale stuff. You have some great deals.
(Non-sticky!) Touched by the Gods for $12 + $5 shipping. -$7 bucks for a minor nick or two is a good deal.
(Minor nick) Backdrops for $5 + $5 = More expensive than if i bought it brand new at my local store! oops.
Sure buying more than 1 item will lower the shipping costs per-item. But i think the problem could lie in that anyone who can't afford to buy products at brand new probably can't afford to buy at bulk either!
For cheapskates like me though, its great!
Or at least lets me check out some of your material. I'm a loyal-dog type buyer. If you do right by me (quality vs value) on a product or two, you end getting the bulk of my business. Not that you should worry about me solely, but i know a lot other gamers think along the same lines. Especially in this day and age of the 32-flavor market!
Seriously though, its more than anyone else seems to do, so you get high marks in my book.
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Flexor the Mighty!
18/100 Strength!
The only thing I can add is that I wouldn't have bought all three core books on impulse if they hadn't been 20 bucks when I bought them. Even 60 bucks took some thinking but when you are talking a hundred dollars with tax I'd have said "too expensive".
Thorin Stoutfoot
First Post
you paid $60 for the core rules?
I paid $42. ($14 each at Amazon.com)
But if you've spent $100 on non-core stuff over the last year, and a product came out that was more desirable and useful than what that $100 bought you, wouldn't you save up for it, rather than buying say, useless splatbooks and slayer's guides, and quintessential xyzs?
I know what my answer would be.
I paid $42. ($14 each at Amazon.com)
But if you've spent $100 on non-core stuff over the last year, and a product came out that was more desirable and useful than what that $100 bought you, wouldn't you save up for it, rather than buying say, useless splatbooks and slayer's guides, and quintessential xyzs?
I know what my answer would be.
JohnNephew
First Post
Warchild, thanks for checking out the website.
The problem with mail order is the basic cost of doing an order at all -- the time of writing up the sale, processing payment, packing an order, the cost of the packing material, and the minimum shipping cost. (E.g., sending a package UPS to a residence may be $5 for the first pound, but only 30 or 50 cents for each additional pound.)
My experience with the fire sale is that most orders tend to be for 3-6 items, sometimes added to something new, and usually products in the same line. E.g., someone looking to round out their Ars Magica collection (or maybe just starting to get really into the game?) will order a bunch of those titles at once.
Yeah, S&H is a problem for lower-priced items like Backdrops. But then, that's a problem for full-priced low-priced items (nobody wants to pay $5 shipping for a $1.99 packet of Cults Across America blank cards!). Still, if you're buying something else, it's easy to tack on something like that (since shipping is a flat rate).
BTW, we have a major announcement coming tomorrow about our web sales. For the time being, we'll continue to be selling "Fire Sale" stuff direct from Atlas. (This will make sense tomorrow when the news is up.)
I know other manufacturers have dents-and-dings on their websites -- Green Ronin, for instance, has some damaged copies of Death in Freeport (or did last time I poked around their site), which is otherwise out-of-print.
If you're price conscious (like me), it's always good to look for a refurb/reman/return section on a manufacturer's web page -- and not just in the games department. The last computer I bought, for example, was a really sweet deal from the Dell "factory outlet" (www.dell.com/outlet) -- essentially a brand new P4, at about half price.
The problem with mail order is the basic cost of doing an order at all -- the time of writing up the sale, processing payment, packing an order, the cost of the packing material, and the minimum shipping cost. (E.g., sending a package UPS to a residence may be $5 for the first pound, but only 30 or 50 cents for each additional pound.)
My experience with the fire sale is that most orders tend to be for 3-6 items, sometimes added to something new, and usually products in the same line. E.g., someone looking to round out their Ars Magica collection (or maybe just starting to get really into the game?) will order a bunch of those titles at once.
Yeah, S&H is a problem for lower-priced items like Backdrops. But then, that's a problem for full-priced low-priced items (nobody wants to pay $5 shipping for a $1.99 packet of Cults Across America blank cards!). Still, if you're buying something else, it's easy to tack on something like that (since shipping is a flat rate).
BTW, we have a major announcement coming tomorrow about our web sales. For the time being, we'll continue to be selling "Fire Sale" stuff direct from Atlas. (This will make sense tomorrow when the news is up.)
I know other manufacturers have dents-and-dings on their websites -- Green Ronin, for instance, has some damaged copies of Death in Freeport (or did last time I poked around their site), which is otherwise out-of-print.
If you're price conscious (like me), it's always good to look for a refurb/reman/return section on a manufacturer's web page -- and not just in the games department. The last computer I bought, for example, was a really sweet deal from the Dell "factory outlet" (www.dell.com/outlet) -- essentially a brand new P4, at about half price.
JohnNephew said:
Well, i thought you at least deserved a page hit, what with all the effort you've been putting in these forums about pricing and such. Take a few lumps, get a few page hits........don't know if its worth it for you!
JohnNephew said:
dun dun duh.........drama!
You should try selling it or raffling it on EN World. I think you'd get a way bigger draw.
JohnNephew said:
Shows how damned observant i am, i visit their site daily and never saw it! Time to put on my spectacles.
