Gaming at non-gaming cons

[Walking Paradox]

I recently attended an anime con that had a gaming room. Attendance was paltry at best (they put games into a room on another floor, rather than in the main convention area), even though a local game store was basically bankrolling the whole thing; it was mostly card tournaments, something that doesn't interest me. There is a local science fiction and fantasy convention that has a gaming room every year, and that is considerably better organized and more active than the rest of the con' in many ways; but people who used to organize it pulled out and its future seems uncertain. (I recall one of them griping about the organizers demanding that he pay an admission fee for the entire weekend even though he is volunteering 8 to 12 hours of his time every day to do what he was doing there, but apparently that's not the main reason.)

Then there is Fan Expo, Canada's largest annual multi-genre convention. They've had gaming since 2005 but this year and last year, they moved all non-electronic gaming to a room that is on a different floor from the main convention hall; this year, it's in a room that is so obscure that only people who are "in the know" will be able to find it. It's not even listed on the web page! (Last year, the RPG events were sabotaged by a local rep' of the RPGA who also owned a store who basically directed everyone to LFR events and discouraged people from playing any other RPG, or even any other D&D 4th Edition game, because they were "not sanctioned.")

Look who said, before the event even began, that he does not plan ever to attend Fan Expo as a gaming guest ever again. Keep in mind that this is somebody who lives in the same city as Fan Expo, who does not need anything more than subway fare to get to the convention center, and doesn't need a hotel room. His cost of attending is nothing more than his time, and he asserts that it's no longer worth his time.

Is there any use in having games at a non-game convention? Can the hobby grow in such an environment? Is there anything special that can be done to make gaming viable at cons that are mostly about something else?

 

[wedgeski]

You reported that RPGA rep, right?

 

[prosfilaes]

Is there any use in having games at a non-game convention? Can the hobby grow in such an environment?

Sure. Reminding people that RPGs exist, and letting them get a taste of them in a safe environment, is one of the best things that can be done to draw in new players, IMO. (Providing that everyone is on good behavior; the last thing the hobby needs is reinforcement of the stereotype that roleplayers have no social skills.)

 

[Zhaleskra]

One of the things I like best about the other conventions I go to is despite an overarching interest, they're "everything" conventions, unlike many gaming conventions.

With so many other events to draw participants, getting interest in an RPG at such a convention is a good deal harder than at a dedicated gaming convention. Though I have been asked about a "sequel" to a rules loose game I ran once.

But if the main draw isn't gaming, card and board games get more room time than RPGs, in my experience.

 

[Walking Paradox]

You reported that RPGA rep, right?

To two different organizers, yes. One of them has a permanent, happy-go-lucky-look-at-me-I'm-so-awesome attitude and just brushed it aside, while the other one said she had heard many complaints about this person.

In a perfect world, the RPGA would be banned for this sort of thing. I know you have to work hard to become the second-most popular RPG in the world but there's no reason to sabotage other games at a con' where gaming isn't even respected to begin with.

 

[Keeper of Secrets]

The only cons I really attend are gaming cons (Origins and GenCon) and a lot of comic shows in the midwest area. The comic shows rarely have any gaming other than maybe some Pokemon tournaments.

I think the real problem with pushing gaming at, say, a comic show is the lack of participation or the (understandable) lack of support. Your average role playing game can 'entertain' seven people: 1 GM and 6 players. And you need a table. Multiply that by about ten games and for one slot you need a whole room to entertain a relatively small number of people.

I think that is why you don't see as much in the way of gaming at comic shows. (Other than Pokemon or Magic or whatever.)

For my personal tastes I would not have much interest doing much gaming at a comic show since (a) I am there for comics and (b) the selection of games is probably not very diverse.

 

[pedr]

It's off-topic, I suppose, but there's no such thing as 'an RPGA representative'. The RPGA barely exists anymore and does not have any hierarchy, overarching organisation, or any other thing which anyone can claim to be 'representing'.

Even LFR now has very few administrators, and none are allocated geographical areas to administer/look after/etc.

As reported, the activities of this person are reprehensible, and obviously reflect badly on WotC, but they are not the activities of an officially-sanctioned RPGA representative, because there aren't any of those.

WotC's formal support for organised play is via the Wizards Play Network which is focused on game stores; what individuals do to organise play aside from game stores is up to them.

However as you mention that this person is also a game store owner, you may find that he was attempting to bolster his game store's standing with WotC by 'encouraging' people to play WPN events he had organised. In that case you may want to contact WotC to let them know.

 

[Steel_Wind]

Robin Laws is not just right; he's BALLS ON ACCURATE. They need to change the name of FanExpo to "GreedCon". After last year, "ConUCon" was what a lot of people were calling it privately.

The so-called "GamingExpo" is now about showing off new XboX 360 and PS3 games. RPG gamers are sent to the furnace room to look for their staplers. The only reason boardgames are not treated the same is because a few manufacturers are showing up and ponying up some dollars in the Exhibit Hall for space. I don't expect that to continue for much longer, either.

The problem with FanExpo is how contemptuously it treats all its invitees. These guys are motivated by PURE GREED. Last year, they oversold the event so much that on Friday and Saturday, they exceeded the capacity of that part of the Metro Convention Centre they had leased for the weekend. The city fined them on Friday (or threatened to) -- so on Saturday, FanExpo was selling tickets at $40 a pop for the day, at the same time that they were not actually letting the ticket buyers in to the Con.

As a result when people left for lunch on Saturday (as other people were still showing up to buy tickets to get inside) they ended up CLOSING THE DOORS.

So there were THOUSANDS, literally THOUSANDS of people with guest passes who had left for lunch and COULD NOT GET BACK IN for two hours+ into the convention. Many tables had gamers seated at the table and the game was cancelled. The GM was stuck outside and could not get back inside to run the event.

It's worse than that. The organizers don't accommodate scheduling of game events until late June -- and really it's MID-JULY until you can even have a sense of whether you will get space to run a game or not. It becomes impossible to deal with this sort of asshattery and schedule games. FanExpo knows it -- and they don't give a crap, either.

So this year -- we just didn't bother. Pathfinder Society is not going to be at FanEXpo. It's just not worth it -- and having gamers and GMs locked out of the venue is about the Worst. Thing. Ever. in terms of marketing your game.

The saddest thing is that RPGs were one of the very few things you could actually DO at FanExpo that didn't cost money. And that's where it all shakes down. This greedy con offers almost nothing to attendees for free. A pass into this convention is nothing more than buying a ticket for a lot of money for the privilege of being let into an area ... so that they can spend even more money.

FanExpo was supposed to be Canada's answer to DragonCon. In a sense it is. It is a popular culture con which sells a BOATLOAD of tickets. With 60,000+ individual attendees, it is MUCH bigger than DragonCon and has 1.5 times the attendees.

But, unlike Dragoncon, there is only a fraction of the things to actually DO at the Con. It's really all about the dealer hall. You go in to a room with 700 vendors selling geek and genre products for top dollar. Most of the autograph booths all charge extra, too. The cost of these booths are so high, the prices make the prices at the Gencon Exhibit Hall at 10:00 a.m. on a Thursday morning look like a FIRE SALE in comparison.

It's a damn shame, as there really is no gaming con in the Toronto area anymore. When the organizers of Pandemonium changed 7 years or so back, they screwed up and booked the thing at a hotel which was too expensive and the whole Con crashed and burned after a tradition of almost thirty years -- and Pandemonium's game auction was consistently the best game auction I've ever attended (Gencon INCLUDED). We've never had a replacement for Panda since. Some very small one day cons have started up since -- but nothing that compares. Right now, HammerCon in Hamilton (in November) is about as good as it gets. Pathfinder Society and the RPGA will BOTH be at Hammercon III, btw.

Well, there are large quarterly game days in the city. But the organizers of those won't permit RPG play at those events. Boardgame, wargames, cardgames and minis? Yes. But RPGs? No.

You want to talk about Edition Wars among gamers that really matter? The conflict between boardgamers and RPG players is the one that is REAL. The edition war crap between 4E / 3.xx and Pathfinder is essentially an online forum phenomenon. The one between Boardgamers and RPG players, otoh, is all too real.