Gaming Theory: M&M 2nd with Hit Points

[Walking Dad]

Had to make two posts for readability:

Interesting stuff.
A few more pieces of input.

Thanks!

Regeneration:
It doesn't do much in-combat healing (in 2e, which is what you're using) until you get to ridiculous ranks (~30 to heal damage each round). 1 hp per round maintains this, and makes it easy to scale the effect to whatever degree you want. And the guy with Regeneration 30 is just as freaking hard to put down as he was before.

Maybe you're right. My idea was to let Healing to give back as much HP / rank as Strike takes. And then align the cost of Regeneration with it. Makes sense? Regeneration would be 'requires no-action', 'self-only' Healing.

Which confuses the heck out of people that aren't used to d20. "But it's damage! Why doesn't my damage reduction stop the pain of acid!?" I understand the decision (it makes casters feel cooler and keeps barbarians from completely ignoring fire) but it's danged confusing, especially with Hardness in existence.
I'm not disagreeing, just pointing out that the language isn't spectacular.

Yes, but I want to use this for a modern d20 hack, so I will have to keep the distinction.

Impervious is a +1 per rank extra, added to the Toughness save. When added to a protection, it increases the DR by 1 (3 / rank); when added to a Con bonus, it should provide DR 2, just like protection, since the con score is providing increased survivability already (in the form of hp). That was a trade off players had to make when dealing with PL caps.
For a non-capped game, Impervious by itself is less useful. It may even be fine to drop it entirely.

So, Impervious Toughness could become the name for a 'more HP' power?

That could work too, and be closer to standard for d20 games.

That was the intention

 

[Walking Dad]

That's probably the way to go. Lower Damage Resistance by 2 / rank, then deal 1d6 per rank. Nice and simple.

...


The trick is balance when you stop having static damage for everything. Blast does (rank -2)d6, or 3.5 per rank after the first 2 (and rank 1 or 2 blasts should just do 1 and 1d4 damage, respectively; subsumed by the higher damage of higher rank blasts).
How should strike work? Flat damage, just like strength? That's going to be pretty lame. Rank -2 d6, just like blast? But most weapons (and weapon-like powers) are low-rank strikes; so they lose their damage dice entirely, and are still melee only?
It's a tricky question with no perfect solutions.
Also, most d20 systems assume that any attack effect is vastly superior to raw strength.

...

At 3 per, protection is too good. Tactical Vest is Protection 4; SMG deals 2d6 damage. A shot can either have a chance to hurt someone (2 to 12 vs. DR 8) or be useless (2 to 12 vs. DR 12). I say that having a chance to cause injury is more appropriate.

Here is my take:

To keep the cost balance, Strike (basic melee range Damage effect) should deal as much damage as the increase of the Str mod (at half it's cost).

Str +2 / mod +1 = 2pp/rank
Strike = 1pp/rank

Suggestion:
The Damage effect (melee) costs 3pp/rank for

Rank
1 - 1d4 damage
2 - 1d6 damage
3 - 2d6 damage
4 - 3d6 damage
... (+1d6 / rank)

Damage Resistance and Energy resistance will become separate effects for 3pp/rank

Rank
1 - 3 reduction
2 - 9 reduction
3 - 15 reduction
4 - 24 reduction
... (+9 / rank)

(Don't forget you will have to buy both to reduce the damage from a physical blast (ice shards) and energy blasts (freezing cold).

 

[ValhallaGH]

I wasn't suggesting Impervious as a "More HP" power. Impervious literally means can't be penetrated. Having it be an ablative defense, like HP, is just wrong. If anything, I'd make Impervious be the combined Energy / Damage resistance, or just rename all Protection powers as Impervious.

A "more HP" power would be Toughness or Resilience.


The proposed damage / defense / cost changes make my frame of reference nearly useless. This is a problem that needs a lot of play testing, not armchair analysis. Good luck.

 

[Walking Dad]

Thanks. You are right about the name. I hope I can soon start the play-testing phase

 

[JovianT]

Don't leave us hanging man!

How is the testing of this concept working out? I already posted my idea for introducing a hit point system into M & M to help bridge the gap between it and a more typical d20 system in another thread here: http://www.enworld.org/forum/genera...ack-into-mutants-masterminds.html#post5577046

But then I like the option of being able to buy extra hit die in exchange for a chance to avoid some of the more annoying effects from combat and incorporating hit dice as a feat that requires spending Hero Points to use among other crazy ideas. Please let me know what you think of it.

 

[Walking Dad]

Sorry, nothing new here. I have sadly no real life group at the moment and the PbP games are proceeding slowly. Will take a look at the link.