GangBusters RPG (TSR) Historical Gaming Discussion

[Umbran]

But Umbran (or anyone else), have you ever mixed in the 1920's etc. sci-fi pulp in your games of GB?

I played the game back when it was in print (back somewhere between 1982 to 1984). I was pretty young, had only just started playing RPGs, and wasn't up to the challenge of adding major new elements. These days, I love playing historical games combined with fantastic elements.

 

[The Shaman]

If they don't sell well, they go out of print. The book isn't there for you to see on the shelf and buy. You have to stumble upon it by chance, and manage to find a rare copy.

Okay.

And if you do that, there's no further support. No published adventures, no supplements, no "network externalities"...

So what?

...all of which make the game more difficult to enjoy.

They do?

Go out and get Gangbusters now, and you have what? One smallish core rulebook and 5 published adventures, and that's it, right?

And I need more than that because...?

Nobody to ask advice from, every further bit of setting and game development has to be done by yourself.

Yeah, so?

Nobody's heard of the game, and all the players are busy and gung-ho about games that are big on the shelves, and don't have time to play your game that they've never heard of.

They are? They don't?

That sounds fairly difficult to enjoy...

And you really believe this to be true?

Plus, if these games don't sell well in general, new games won't get made. It is quite impossible for us to enjoy games that never exist.

Wow, you really buy the hype, don't you?

 

[The Shaman]

Either your google-fu is weak, or my faith is. Hmmm....probably the latter.

Insult not my Google-fu! Behold my Gazing Panda Search! *CLICK! CLICK! CLICK! CLICK!*

In a fantasy game there are in-game counters to most common player tactics....In a modern game, that becomes a lot harder. Sure, I can tell the player that they can't find the info on google, or set a really high Computer Use DC, or throw in red herrings. But to the players, that feels wrong.

The players probably have unrealistic expectations if they believe that anything they want to know is really that easy to find, but for the sake of argument, let's say that it is: If the bad guy has holed up in a 1950s-era bomb shelter and the characters manage to unearth the location and the floor plans, so what? They still have no idea what's going on inside at that moment, what defenses are rigged, what changes have been made, how the facility is guarded from the outside - that's all information they need to gather by other means or contingency plan for.

Case in point. A long while back, I was in a modern-era game where we found ourselves in a jam and without enough weapons to go around. One of the players says he wants to use a 'Streetwise' type skill to get a gun. Dm says 'You don't have enough time', player responds 'Hell, *I* can get a gun inside a half-hour' and proceeds to call some shady people he knows to prove a point. Fifteen minutes later, a guy knocks on the door wanting to know who wanted to buy a gun.

Eek, indeed. :\

But is this any different than a character coming up with a use of a spell you didn't anticipate? You roll with it, and adjust as you go.

At least in a fantasy game, when I tell them the BBEG has a teleport block on, they can't proceed to lecture me on the real-world limitations of teleport blockers.

I understand what you're saying, and yes, it's happened to me a couple of times as well. Like I said, it's more challenging, but I like that challenge.

 

[Umbran]

And I need more than that because...?

You, in particular, I cannot speak to.

In general, though, gamers need more than that because there isn't all that much in the basic book to begin with. The same thing that brings gamers to buy core rules also brings them to supplements - a dedicated designer can do the job for them faster and better than they could do it themselves, leaving the GM time to focus on the particular things he or she is interested in.

Yeah, so?

You are posting on one of the biggest gaming-support resources on the planet. I'd not think you'd have to ask this. But to answer the question - is basically the same as above. Most gamers have jobs and lives in addition to our gaming hobbies. We only have so much time to devote to constructing a game. If the game requires too much work for the GM, it ceases to be fun. So, we tend to seek out games with support over those without.

They are? They don't?

In general, Yes and No, respectively. D&D has it's current success and popularity, in large part, to this effect, and this is why the OGL exists. For some related thoughts, go take a look at some of the writings of Ryan Dancey on the subject. For example The Most Dangerous Column in Gaming.

Wow, you really buy the hype, don't you?

I don't know what hype you're referring to. I'm observing human nature. The number of people willing and able to do good work for free is smaller than those who can and will do good work for money. If you can sell it, there'll be more of it.

 

[The Shaman]

Umbran, all I can say is, I'm glad I'm not "most gamers."

An old system is brand new to someone who's never played it. The Interweb makes it possible to find gamers literally around the world who share an interest in pretty much any roleplaying game system or genre. Homebrewers seem to manage well enough. And good games don't have a shelf life.

 

[Silver Moon]

Wow, lots of great responses. I don't have a problem at all with Historical gaming in fact I throughly enjoy them. Last year I started a Sidewider Recoiled western game for what I planned as a one-shot and have now done five sessions of it, each time with mostly the same characters but different players (Here's the link to the first three sessions played in 2005, which reminds me that I need to update it with the two 2006 sessions, http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=153654)

I do know what you mean about the lack of fantasy elements causing it to loose something, which is why my Play-by-Post Boot Hill game is a hyrbrid with D&D3E rules (and works surprsingly well, with us now on our 4th module in almost two continuous years - Those Story Hours are also up in that forum).

Not sure how I'll use GangBusters. My weekly gaming group wants to play strictly D&D, so I may use it for an ENWorld Game day some time in the fall. I'm sure I can make it fun and entertaining for a 4-hour event. I'm sure I'll eventually get my money's worth for the lot as the game and both modules cost less than $ 5.00 total (paid more for the postage, but also that included other gaming items from the same sellers).

 

[CarlZog]

An old system is brand new to someone who's never played it. The Interweb makes it possible to find gamers literally around the world who share an interest in pretty much any roleplaying game system or genre. Homebrewers seem to manage well enough. And good games don't have a shelf life.

This is my philosophy as well, although I do recognize that a great many other gamers demand a steady flow of supplements, settings and adventures for any system they'll consider playing. Their loss, in my opinion.

By the way, I never owned Gangbusters, but I, too, am a big fan of historical and "real life" rpgs. Creative adventures don't require fantastical elements for me. Espionage and swashbuckling adventures are among my favorites.

Have fun with Gangbusters, SilverMoon, and if you need inspiration, see if you dig up the old Untouchables TV series on video or dvd. Good fun.

Carl

 

[Silver Moon]

Have fun with Gangbusters, SilverMoon, and if you need inspiration, see if you dig up the old Untouchables TV series on video or dvd. Good fun.

Oh, I'm well versed in the period, my grandparents were from Chicago. In fact, back in the 20's my Grandfather may have saved a man's life from the Capone gang!*




*Okay, here's the story. They lived in the Cicero suburb. A friend of his rented out rooms. One tenant kept having loud houseguests at all hours of the day or night and the friend told my Grandfather he was going to evict her. My Grandfather got a good look at this woman's boyfriend, recognized him as Al Capone's brother, and strongly advised his friend "Don't say a thing."

 

[Silver Moon]

I just looked through all of the game information - the rules, mini-module, maps and both modules. Tom Moldvay's Module GB1 "Trouble Brewing" is exactly what I was looking for - it's a fully developed campaign setting with detailed descriptions of the businesses on the map of this city ward plus around 200 NPC's.

I find this very comparable to the "Promise City" western town from Boot Hill module BH3 "Ballots and Bullets" which I've used as the basis for my Wild West Campaigns. For those two campaigns I have used primarily D&D rules (around 80%) with around 20% of Boot Hill overlayed for flavor (mostly the Firearms combat tables).

I think I'll do something similar with this, using D20 Modern as the rules basis with a smattering thrown in from the GangBuster rules for flavor (I may retain the "Luck" ability, as with an extended campaign it might be needed to help keep the playing characters alive). I find it interesting that the 1980 GangBuster rules also use a skill point system where you start with a primary skill and then add more as you advance in level.

Not sure when I'd actually start this campaign, probably some time in the fall, as this will take a while to prep if I want it to be successful. I'll probably run it as a Play-by-Post game like my western.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Where did you find "Trouble Brewing"? Is it available online?