Gate: Not Broken At All?

[Elaer]

File this one in the catagory of "Old Arguments That Refuse To Die:"

Looking over the description of Gate, one finds that you can call and control a single creature whose HD do not exceed twice your caster level. This has been the point of numerous debates on this and other boards. However...

Mind Blank will foil any and all spells that detect, influence, or read emotions and thoughts. It explicitly states that the spell even foils wishes and miracles designed to affect the subjects mind. Further, a simple Protection From Chaos/Evil/Good/Law prevents any creature from exercising mental control over a warded creature (as opposed to having control over such a creature). I'm sure that there are other effects that do similar things.

Now, if I'm the baddest boy on the planar block, I'm sure I'm going to take steps to ensure I'm protected from these spells. A Solar is always warded, as would any being capable of casting contingency (If I am summoned and controlled by some Prime Wizard, then I am protected with a Magic Circle against Good). A simple Ring of Protection from Law is only 2,000 gp. So would these protections against being mentally controlled serve as an effective prevention against Gate?

 

[kreynolds]

Now, if I'm the baddest boy on the planar block, I'm sure I'm going to take steps to ensure I'm protected from these spells. A Solar is always warded, as would any being capable of casting contingency (If I am summoned and controlled by some Prime Wizard, then I am protected with a Magic Circle against Good).

So, are you saying that every single Solar, knowing that they might one day be gated against their will, is going to take steps to protect themselves from such a possibility? Do you have any idea how many Rings of Protection from Good are gonna be necessary for that?

 

[Kae'Yoss]

You have to consider that the guys, especially the bad guys, WANT to be gated onto the material plane! They don't mind fighting some puny mortals on your command, and there's always the chance that you want a contractual service and get it wrong, so they have you in their hands. Of course, they always scheme to break free of your control. That's wenn they break the hells loose on the prime, their favourite pastime....

 

[Elaer]

Re: Re: Gate: Not Broken At All?

So, are you saying that every single Solar, knowing that they might one day be gated against their will, is going to take steps to protect themselves from such a possibility? Do you have any idea how many Rings of Protection from Good are gonna be necessary for that?

No, I'm saying that every Archon, Ghaele, Deva, Planetar and Solar will have some sort of Magic Circle against Evil up as a racial ability. Wouldn't this prevent Primes from exercising mental control over them?

In the same manner, Hezrou, Nalfeshnee, Mariliths, Balors, Cornugons, Gelugons, Pit Fiends, Myrmarchs, Formorian Queens, and Green, Gray and Death Slaad all have similar abilities (Protection From Law, Magic Circles, Unholy Aura, etc.).

Now, while this still leaves scores of fiendish and celestial creatures to contend with, it does take some of the bite out of the spell, doesn't it?

I mean, you would still be able to summon the Solar/Pit Fiend/Death Slaad to the Prime, but it gets there and then can do whatever it wants. Maybe it will help you, maybe it won't. You still have powerful elementals, or a fiendish Lernaean Pyro-Hydra, or whatever your heart desires short of the vorpal sword wielding, 20th level cleric Celestial.

 

[Thanee]

Not exactly to the point, but how can a ring of protection from <enter partial alignment here> be only 2k?

It's vastly more powerful than this and should cost at least 20k IMHO, providing +2 AC and +2 to saves under many circumstances as well as total immunity to mental control!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Cloudgatherer]

I agree with Thanee. By the "guidelines", a ring of protection from evil would only be 2000, but I think that is way too cheap, and I would imagine others would agree with me.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Gate: Not Broken At All?

You still have powerful elementals, or a fiendish Lernaean Pyro-Hydra...

And why wouldn't elementals or fiendish lernaean pyro-hydras take measures or evolve to protect themselves from gate servitude?

 

[nwn_deadman]

Protection spells such as protection from evil only works against evil creatures.

Does this include mind control?

 

[DM_Matt]

Thwey all prevent mind control of all sorts, regardless of alignment.

 

[Elaer]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Gate: Not Broken At All?

And why wouldn't elementals or fiendish lernaean pyro-hydras take measures or evolve to protect themselves from gate servitude?

I'm not saying they wouldn't, just that they would have to take steps. Most of the really powerful outsiders are automatically protected. So while Gating an Elemental might give you a chance at controlling them, Gating a Solar would not mean you have absolute control.

And now that somebody pointed it out, I'll agree that such a Ring would be under-priced at 2K.