Gate vs. Monster Summon IX

[Shard O'Glase]

consequences smonsequences, gate beats the crap out of MS IX, me I house ruled gate to summon any creatue on monster summoning VIII list or 2 from VII. That way it's many other benefits balance it out with MS IX. Oh yeah the one benefit you missed is fairly big standard action v 1 round casting times.

 

[ruleslawyer]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I actually think that your interpretation nerfs gate too much, Shard.

In general, the calling spells (planar ally, etc.) are far more powerful than the SM spells. In fact, the SM spells by and large are rather on the weak side for their level at ANY level. The designers clearly felt that calling spells somehow had a counterbalancing weakness that made them competitive with summon spells (if there is one, I don't see it).

IMC, I use the following rules for gate: 1) the spell has a 5000 xp cost; and 2) it confers no control whatsoever over the creature summoned.

If you all think this is too harsh, think of it this way: As it stands, gate is not only the best summoning spell (a 20th-level caster can summon an infernal, a CR 31 creature, while still maintaining control of the creature), but it allows instantaneous travel to any plane desired (thus being better in many ways than astral projection, another 9th-level spell), it allows foolproof assassination (go to another plane and gate in your enemy, command him to fight for you against an invincible foe or just stand still for a round or two), and it allows an unbeatable defense (conjure a gate with the open side facing away from you, allowing you to launch attacks normally while all attacks launched in your direction end up in another plane). All of these things make gate well worth the 5000 xp cost and loss of creature control in my games, and I imagine they will in yours as well.

BTW, the potential roleplaying restriction of having an extraplanar creature angry at you for gating it in is just that. It's not enough of a "hard" restriction to balance the spell. A reasonably smart player will gate in a known or named creature, and most likely will gate in a creature of sufficiently similar alignment that those creatures will not resent their service to the caster. For example, an evil caster will summon a balor or infernal who enjoys the opportunity to crush powerful good foes, while a good caster will summon a solar or other divine servant who similarly has an interest in combatting evil foes.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

I like my nerf so nyah.

Seriously I think while the planar calling spells are more potent they aren't better than MSX spells for one great reason casting time. 10 minute casting time remove the calling spells from the realm of combat, a big penalty IMO. MSX spells can be sued with diffuculty in combat, and yes I agree slightly weak, I've been thinking of upping duraiton to 1 min/level this round crap rmoves far too many of the out of combat uses for the spells.

Gate is calling +spells one max HD is huge x2 your level, it also allows travel, and wierd off the cuff proteciton an asteroid is hitting us one feb 1st, 2019 I open my gate and banish it to heck, oh and standard action.

I'll bounce your nerf off my players and see if they prefer your over mine, I think yours looks good so I'm ok if they want to change to your method.