GDQ1-7 redux help!

[ruleslawyer]

Oh FFS.

steeldragons: Just pretend I said "old-school feel" instead of "OSR"; I wasn't paying the most careful attention to terminology. After 34 years of playing and DMing, I have moved way on from 1e and BECMI so the discussion underway does concern elements like level-appropriate encounters, et cetera.

Please allow us to get back to the conversation at hand. Thank you for your input!

 

[ruleslawyer]

So here's my plan:

G1: Running as written with all giant levels -1
G2: Running as written with all giant levels -1
G2.5: PCs go straight from the Glacier to the G3 dungeons (in this case, these are located below the glacier as opposed to the Halls of the Fire Giant King). Dungeons are run with roughly similar encounters (champion-tier drow, a dragon or two, some nasty monsters).
D1: Run pretty much as written but with the two-hex "expansion" areas folded into the mix.
D2: Run as written with one of the four-hex "expansion" areas folded into the mix.
D3: Run as written. I might do the aboleth city expansion or something equally insane and epic if I feel like the campaign needs it at this point.

 

[Jer]

I think your plan sounds good - I hope you let us know how it all turns out

Out of curiosity, what's the plan for the Adventurer tier? Do you have other old school adventures that you're planning on using, or is the old school just just for the capstone?

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Giants were originally a very trivial opponent, but almost every edition made them scarier.

How far back is "originally?" Because G1 in the 1E era was a meatgrinder unless the party played very smart, and it got harder from there.

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

I reduced the levels of giants and almost every other creature in my 4E games to match their 1E hit dice. That has allowed me to include the G1-3 series as the capstone of the Heroic Tier, and with some further funkiness (eg, level 10 standard monster has the same XP value as a level 6 elite monster or a level 1 solo monster) has allowed frost giants, as an example, to be met across the entire Heroic Tier.

Maybe you could apply the same sort of logic to 13th Age? (BTW, that is precisely what I plan to do when I get around to running it.)

 

[ruleslawyer]

Whizbang: giants got a straight 4-HD boost in 2e (which was basically backwards-compatible with 1e) and then frequently had class levels in 3e. 4e made them high paragon tier opponents, which granted was pretty much irrelevant since 4e changed the comparative level of many monsters (eg yuan-ti).

The reasons for G1-3 being meatgrinders is largely the number of foes and frequency of encounters involved. With the amount of healing available in 1e-2e (spell slots and magic items economics), more than a few rooms pretty much necessitates fleeing and doing a full night's rest with memorization of spells etc., possibly even a bit of potion purchasing. In fact, one of the reasons I'm running these adventures (true confession time) is that I want to do something radically different from my first go at D&D as a DM. Back then I was pretty merciless and unbending, and my players quickly adapted to the point that the game became a bit adversarial at times, and a bit of a PC death zone at others. I want to try these adventures using the flexibility and more cooperative approach engendered by 13th age and see how it goes.

Scrivener: good idea! I did toy with the idea of making hill giants double-strength ogres etc. which would be your approach analogized to 13tha.

Jer: let's just say the campaign begins in a little rustic community called Hommlet.

The campaign takes the PCs from the Moathouse to the ruins of Gauntlgrym (it's an FR campaign), where they unearth the influence of a slaving society whose lords (cough) have taken up arming and marshaling orcs, trolls, and other monsters for some sinister purpose. The PCs pursue the lords to their hidden aerie, possibly get trapped in their dungeons, and then bring the conspiracy crashing down. Most of the Lords are slain but some might escape; the Zhentarim cleric Stalman Klim is either slain or brought to reckoning by the Masked Lord Manshoon for betraying the Black Network. The PCs bask in their glory only to realize that it was too late; the remaining slave lords seek revenge while giant-led armies descend from the Spine of te World. The PCs trace the marauding giants to their Steading...

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

(snip)
Scrivener: good idea! I did toy with the idea of making hill giants double-strength ogres etc. which would be your approach analogized to 13tha.

Jer: let's just say the campaign begins in a little rustic community called Hommlet.

The campaign takes the PCs from the Moathouse to the ruins of Gauntlgrym (it's an FR campaign), where they unearth the influence of a slaving society whose lords (cough) have taken up arming and marshaling orcs, trolls, and other monsters for some sinister purpose. The PCs pursue the lords to their hidden aerie, possibly get trapped in their dungeons, and then bring the conspiracy crashing down. Most of the Lords are slain but some might escape; the Zhentarim cleric Stalman Klim is either slain or brought to reckoning by the Masked Lord Manshoon for betraying the Black Network. The PCs bask in their glory only to realize that it was too late; the remaining slave lords seek revenge while giant-led armies descend from the Spine of te World. The PCs trace the marauding giants to their Steading...

That sounds almost exactly like the way I would run GDQ in FR.

In 4E, I have ogres as level 4 brutes and sometimes the PCs encounter them in conjunction with a hill giant who is a level 4 ELITE brute (same XP value as a level 8 brute as my hill giants normally are) so there's my version of a double-strength ogre.

And thanks for making me look again at my 13th Age books and wonder when I will get a chance to use them....

 

[keterys]

How far back is "originally?" Because G1 in the 1E era was a meatgrinder unless the party played very smart, and it got harder from there.

Absolutely; mostly through sheer number. But every edition of D&D since 1E has made giants tougher than they were in 1E. More hit points, more damaging attacks, higher level expectations.

You might run into a dozen giants at 9th level in 1st edition, whereas a single one is a serious threat at 9th in 3rd edition.

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

Absolutely; mostly through sheer number. But every edition of D&D since 1E has made giants tougher than they were in 1E. More hit points, more damaging attacks, higher level expectations.

You might run into a dozen giants at 9th level in 1st edition, whereas a single one is a serious threat at 9th in 3rd edition.

At least until the 9th-level wizard says, " A +4 Will save? Um, let me take care of that...." Although with a CR of 7, two of them would make an EL 9 encounter so the PCs might end up with one to fight after the wizard has acted.

Otherwise, I do agree. Lucky giants can seriously wreck your day in 3.xE.

 

[pemerton]

If it's of any interest, here I talk a bit about what I am doing with G2 in my 4e game. I've levelled up rather than down, but maybe some of it is still useful.