D&D (2024) GenCon 2023 - D&D Rules Revision panel

[Minigiant]

More or less, but the approval thresholds skew quite high. “Mid rank” here means around 70% positive scores.

Yup. The original thresholds were too high. So anything that wasn't perfect wasn't kept.

So by the end of the playtest, a ton of stuff had to be designed internally without playtest to get the book out.

Like 90% of the DMG. Crawford said the 2014 DMG was rushed because they spent so much time redoing the PHB stuff there was not time to look at the DMG.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

At current rates we should start seeing packet 10 sometime around 2025 or 2026.

At the current rate, UA 10 would be published Feb 22, 2024. That might be fine for them to get a few notes on a mostly-done-already book (a LOT of work can be done on a book without all the details settled). They've probably been working on the 2024 DMG for ~2 years by now.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Im still flabbergasted that they actually caused a lot of the issues 5e has just by dropping half the fantastic ideas they had originally.

Your constant negativity is driving me nuts, but you got me there. There was a lot of good stuff in NEXT that got dropped before 5e launched that could have just used a few more tweaks to get perfect, but the baby got thrown out with the bathwater.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Your constant negativity is driving me nuts, but you got me there. There was a lot of good stuff in NEXT that got dropped before 5e launched that could have just used a few more tweaks to get perfect, but the baby got thrown out with the bathwater.

A broken clock is correct twice a day.

 

[Velderan]

At the current rate, UA 10 would be published Feb 22, 2024. That might be fine for them to get a few notes on a mostly-done-already book (a LOT of work can be done on a book without all the details settled). They've probably been working on the 2024 DMG for ~2 years by now.

Which given they print their books in the US so printing times aren't as bad as receiving freight from overseas, they could easily have a UA packet for 2024 DMG in Q1 2024 and implement any changes that come out of the UA feedback before the book releases in its likely Q3 2024 release window. That's assuming they go with PHB > MM > DMG for release order again, which makes a lot of sense.

 

[mamba]

I mean, same as school grades.

you pass even without getting an A or whatever that gets you

 

[mamba]

Which also skew towards high thresholds for success, yeah.

that must be why half the class has to repeat it

 

[Emberashh]

Your constant negativity is driving me nuts, but you got me there. There was a lot of good stuff in NEXT that got dropped before 5e launched that could have just used a few more tweaks to get perfect, but the baby got thrown out with the bathwater.

Negativity is warranted when something genuinely isn't good. Ive said before Im not the only one who thinks this way about how WOTC has proceeded.

 

[tetrasodium]

At the current rate, UA 10 would be published Feb 22, 2024. That might be fine for them to get a few notes on a mostly-done-already book (a LOT of work can be done on a book without all the details settled). They've probably been working on the 2024 DMG for ~2 years by now.

That's still crashing into the fact that trouble with waiting till it's too late to start thinking about the GM is that when they start thinking about the GM it's too late. It doesn't matter if Feb 24 leaves enough time or not for packet 10 to do something for the gm if the prior nine packets do not leave room for it's existence within the rules.

We just saw a return of short rest class design with no change to make resting harder in the same packet that gave low level rogues were given a ranged at will ability to drop almost every flying creature but beholders from the sky with no real cost the *cost" is so low that the resulting fall damage for anything in flight probably equals or exceeds the damage sacrificed. All of that impacts and limits what the GM sees at the table and what the GM stuff can do.

February of 2024 is a long time to expect people to keep saying "uhh what munchkin is this written for?". By that point it doesn't matter what then irrelivant tools they might want to include in the dmg because the gm as an individual has already been pigeonholed into the role of enemy to be defeated rather than the monsters the adventure designers world builder lore keeper and collaborator. Wotc needs to do better than we might see in a thread that starts out "newbie here, PEACH my first homebrew" all the way to packet 10 and beyond.

 

[Minigiant]

The issue isn't that WOTC's survey idea was bad.

The issue is WOTC underestimated the cohesiveness of the entire community.
There not not a couple types of D&D fans. There are like 10-12. And they are very different from each other.

So it is hard to get 80% of the Entire D&D community to agree with major design.
So WOTC when choose 70% threshold, they ended upwasting months because 30% of D&D will always hate something that isn't fundamental.

When WOTC scrapped modular 5e, they doomed huge chunks of 5e to failure. Because a lot of stuff would never make 70% satisfaction in just 2 years of open playtest.