GenCon files Chapter 11

[Kahuna Burger]

I'm optomistic!

The bankruptcy is a perfectly common way to manage debt. It's unfortunate that it has a title that it does. However, Gen Con LLC has always been forthright, and they have always said that the Indy venue has been profitable.

I think steel wind does have a point, however, about how important the buy in of other companies is to this venture. For instance, Marvel filed chapter 11 several years ago, and is still doing fine, but their primary source of income is selling their comics. As long as they can keep producing comics, subscribers aren't going to cancel, and shops aren't going to stop making orders. There isn't an element of investment risk for the people they need to keep their business going. Additionally, the majority of comic consumers probably never heard of the filing, and many would have responded by buying more comics to keep them going if they did.

For Gencon, which needs people to commit well in advance to paying for a "product" that doesn't exist yet (some of whom (the vendors) regard it as a business investment and will know about gencon's financial situation) the impact of a chapter 11 filing could be very different.

 

[Relique du Madde]

I just felt a great disturbance in the forse... as if the voices of millions of gamers all all cried out in horror and were silenced....


Why must Lucas kill everything us geeks hold dear? First Starwars, now gen con.. what next?

 

[DonTadow]

I just felt a great disturbance in the forse... as if the voices of millions of gamers all all cried out in horror and were silenced....


Why must Lucas kill everything us geeks hold dear? First Starwars, now gen con.. what next?

lmao. Perhaps we can find a kid who has the hots for his sister to take Lucas down.

Best start the search in Kentucky.

 

[Qualidar]

The comment was, I believe, about not continuing to support the company. If you have non refundable tickets, your support has been given for the year.

Ah, my mistake. The way you were quoting me, I thought it was a judgement on my morality.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Ah, my mistake. The way you were quoting me, I thought it was a judgement on my morality.

Well, you did seem to be implying the poster would be all alone in abstaining, without making any mention of a reason. And unfortunately, I think that even if this all had come about before preregistration, most potential attendees still wouldn't care.

As for morality... for some people, spending money based on the quality of what they will receive vs worrying about judging the provider on issues outside of the exchange seems to be a point of morality, or at least something they take pride in. I consider it unfortunate, but by virtue of disagreeing with me, I don't expect any of the people I was refering to to feel badly judged.

 

[Greylock]

You know, it's entirely possible that there is a story on GenCon's side that has not been told as of yet. Sure, it could be malfeasance that runs deep in the inner office there, a terrible dark evil streak that runs straight through the corporate office all the way to the top levels.

But, maybe someone sat on the money, absconded with the money, or told the bosses that everything was "all good" right up until they got the letter from Lucas?

 

[Contrarian]

I'm curious what kind of numbers we're talking about, and why they'd have to file Chapter 11. I mean, wouldn't the business have to be in pretty bad shape to have to file?

Bad shape, yes, but not as bad a shape as they would have to be to file other kinds of bankruptcy. Chapter 11 is "we can pay our debts if everybody gives us time and stops suing us" kind of bankruptcy. If GenCon LLC is filing that, it's because they think they can pull off Gen Con Indy and use the profits from that to start settling debts.

(The really bad news would have been Chapter 7 -- that's the "we give up, the company's shutting down" kind of bankruptcy.)

Gen Con LLC says their core business (Indy) is fine. If they're telling the truth about that, Gen Con Indy should be fine in the long run. I just wouldn't expect any major expansions for the next few years.

 

[Mort]

Well there's Chapter 11 and then there's chapter 11.

by that I mean there's the Hail Mary we're doing a last ditch effort to stay out of ch. 7 type filing (most small businesses) and then there's the "We need time and the paltry sum we'll pay in attorney's fees pales in comparison to the amount we'll save from our creditors and our own workers (United Airlines which saved billions on slashing pension plans alone). Of course most are somewhere in the middle with a hope we can save the company filing.

I took a quick look at the filings in this case so far and it's impossible to tell what kind this will be - though there are some pretty hefty debts going on(though not by some corporate standards).

If anyone is interested I can e-mail them a copy of the petition (it's public record but not easy to get at if you don't have access to RACER).

Well, my wife is not a lawyer. But I am a lawyer; moreover, I am in the business of making and marketing games as well.

So you'll forgive me if I view the legal answer as to the theoretical efficacy of "bankruptcy protection" to executory contracts with a cynical and jaundiced eye.

I am not saying that Gencon 08 will not go forward. It probably will - though the matter - which was previously a certainty - now has an element of doubt to it. You don't get to that new place for free.

Far more importantly, I am saying that the quality of the event is now greatly in doubt and the commitment of many different parties who depend on trust and the expectation of an ongoing commercial interest over a course of years to focus their attention and commitment is shaken. That has a cascade effect that is very difficult to avoid.

I repeat: there will be consequences.

 

[Mort]

I'm optomistic!

The bankruptcy is a perfectly common way to manage debt. It's unfortunate that it has a title that it does. However, Gen Con LLC has always been forthright, and they have always said that the Indy venue has been profitable.

That's a good point - if it's in fact profitable (or has been) it's unlikely the creditors will fight it going forward - not that I ever make it these days .

 

[Belen]

If GenCon 08 does not happen, then WOTC and 4e could be jeopardized. Wizards has a sound business reason to see that GenCon happens. I would not be surprised if Wizards offers to purchase a share of GenCon etc. I think that they regret selling GenCon sometimes.