General Discussion Thread IX

[Bront]

FYI, you should have links elsewhere. I ended up having to search this thread to find the link after browsing the forum.

Like your sig, and maybe Rinaldo's character sheet

 

[Velmont]

You won't tell me twice.

 

[orsal]

The metagame reasons it hasn't done well have to do with the tradeoff between the manpower pool and the adventure pool, and with the specialized nature of the other tavern proposals. The first issue has to do with keeping both PCs and DMs from languishing during recruiting...I think the fear is that a 2nd tavern would cause a lot of PCs to spend more down time waiting for an adventure.

Also, most of the time our pool of adventurers-in-waiting isn't large enough to split. There have been times when three adventures' worth of PCs have been gathered in the RDI, but that's not typical -- most of the time, the population is small enough to be cleared out as soon as the next adventure hook shows up. In that situation, you want to have all your prospective players in one place, so we don't want to have multiple taverns operating until LEW gets somewhat larger.

 

[SlagMortar]

A tavern in Lathirn would attract a different kind of clientele. I think there would be enough of those types to support one or two adventures, but they are spread across multiple adventures right now. The tough part would be consolidating enough together. DerHauptman, have you assembled a list of the unsavory characters from the character thread? I would consider running a few mob style adventures, but it would be helpful to determine the characters that I would need to assemble.

 

[Patlin]

The "high level" travelling tavern waiting in reserve is really cool -- I hope we wind up using it someday!

 

[Knight Otu]

The "high level" travelling tavern waiting in reserve is really cool -- I hope we wind up using it someday!

I had considered using it as a kind of in-adventure travel aid into a far land, just to give it some screen time.

 

[DerHauptman]

FYI, you should have links elsewhere. I ended up having to search this thread to find the link after browsing the forum.

Like your sig, and maybe Rinaldo's character sheet

I think that since we have the character job thing all worked out and some of it involves the construction and operation of shops that there should be perhaps a sub-forum for said shops with any permanent ones stickied as well.

Just because Rinaldo's is the first one doesn't mean it'll be the only one. I think my Character Zurd will open an Alchemy shop. Perhaps even hit up Rinaldo for space there for a % of his sales. Might be some fun RP in that.


It might even be neat to have an off time forum where the character has to write a short 1 paragraph synopsis of his work weak to get "paid" for his week of work. This will prevent someone from just blowing of LEW for months and coming back and saying "um...I was working, yea I was working"...etc.

I had a job in a remote site where I had to turn in a weekly summary to account for my time to my bosses, that I only saw once. I got a great OER! LOL. It was easy and worked fine.

 

[Pbartender]

DerHauptman and others...

As the judge and DM who moderated "The Handshake Incident", allow me to explain, since I've pretty much kept quiet about it since it ended.

An annotated recap...

• The "Crocodile Hunt" adventure hook was posted in the RDI.
• Both Calamar and Cain go into the RDI's "back room" to hire into the job.
• Calamar greets Cain with... "I think that we may have need of your services little one," he continued, "however, you will forgive me if I don't shake your hand to seal the deal, I have known one to many halflings in my days. No hard feeling of course," he said, trying to hide his disdain.
• To which Cain replied... "This job will go easier if we are all cordial." Cain holds out his hand to Calamar. "Now shake my hand and we'll be friends." He smiles with a wicked twinkle in his eyes. "If you don't then we'll be enemies."
• One of the other PCs tries to defuse the situation (at least twice), but neither Calamar nor Cain (or rather neither of their players) took the hint. Lots of yelling in the back room (which pretty much included a summation of the situation and everyone involved), especially on the part of Lady Fant. Note: About this time, the judges had been emailing each other, and, if I remember right, I had volunteered to referee a duel, should it actually come to that. I decided at this point, that Joe had sent off a errand boy to warn the town watch about possible trouble, and that the town watch would surreptitiously post a couple of guardsmen outside near the tavern... Aside from the mundane explanation, in the thread I joked that there's no reason to believe that Joe doesn't have a "panic button", and that the town guardsmen don't have access to teleport or even a simple dimension door spell... Just in case. As others have said, the RDI is a place where heavily armed and exceptionally skilled mercenaries gather to get free drinks. Of course it'll be one of the town guard's "hot spots".
• Somewhere between the back room and the taproom ("some hours" after the incident in the back room), the two decide on a duel. Calamar suggests fighting down at the beach "so that our duel may be conducted without the attraction of the law and others". They leave together. Several other adventurers offer Joe their help in "solving" the situation. Note: At this point, I had no problem with the two of them going down to the beach, and trying to kill each other. However...
• The two leave the RDI together. As soon as they are outside, in the street, directly in front of the RDI, endangering a crowd of innocent bystanders, and in full view of the previously noted city guardsmen, Cain draws his sword and charges Calamar. Several of the other RDI adventurers come out to watch, and again try to step in. Note: This was, incidentally, the point where, try as hard as I might as a jidge and a DM, I couldn't help but start getting pissed off at the whole situation. I'm not proud of it, and I'm still not happy abou it. It admittedly colored a few decisions I made later, but at the time, made no difference to anything that happened previously or the actual capture outside the Inn.
• The guards roll a good initiative, and the players both roll poor Will saves... They both fall to a sleep spell. Note: The town guards involved were just four 1st level Fighters with clubs and leather armor and a 2nd level Wizard with sleep and color spray spells prepared.
• The sleeping characters get dumped into a jail cell with a (admittedly corny... I probably could have done just as well with a guard admonishing them through the bars ) limerick on the wall that essentially stated, "One way or the other, settle your score in here."
• The characters fight it out. Calamar gets knocked into negative hitpoints, wakes up later, admits defeat, and the two them go free.
• What's more, both players, in the end, admitted in a rather back-handed way, that the whole thing was stupid. And that it all stemmed from, "PbPs tend to go so slowly. I was trying to keep things interesting while we waited," and had gone far, far out of hand.

Finally, the whole situation could be best summed by Cain's admission... "Also, on a metagaming level, If you don't like PC vs PC conflict, you should probably not create a character whose most distictive trait is that they are insulting to other characters. If I meet a character like that, I take for granted that the player must enjoy PC vs PC friction."

I'll say again, I wasn't entirely happy with the whole thing. I'm not proud of some of my decisions. It was a low point for me concerning LEW and DMing in general. A couple years of hindsight and experience only lets me say that I'd hope I'd handle the very ending just a little bit differently, if it happened again.

It was, rather, a turning point for LEW, since it was first instance of PvP combat, and only the second instance of open violence within or near the RDI... It was not an easy time to be making the best decisions, without bias, and with cool deliberation.


In other words, the much debated "30 second response time" was simply a coincidence. The guards had been keeping an eye out nearby for some hours at the request of Joe.

If anything, the town guard response time and effectiveness was, perhaps, the least important thing that was wrangled over during that whole incident.

 

[DerHauptman]

PB - I guess its one of those things that reads silly second hand but in the proper context makes sense. I see how it makes more sense in context.

No harm done at the time except for the precedent set for future fights. I'd have done it different is perhaps my point - not that it matters. No harm in that either.

I do appreciate that you didn't just say "hell no" no PVP ever no way we won't allow it. I think it cool that you did volunteer to mediate it for them too. It is hard to set precedent without something to go by - I know this from real life experience.

We can all agree to disagree on this one but I don't buy that the city of Ossirus, a city of some size has the resources, and more importantly the desire to swoop down on victim less crimes like that one.

I say victim less because the one guy started it by being an ass the other carried through with violence - a not uncommon outcome in times where matters were often settled like that.

If I were the magistrate in that situation and in Ossirus at the time I'd have come to the conclusion even if the little guy did kill him in the street that it was a fair fight and justified by personal insult and slight. The wizard foolishly dropped his guard in the midst of a potentially deadly disagreement - his stupidity is not a mitigating factor.

It would not have been viewed as murder and the whole thing soon forgotten. That's me though.

However, I was not around and since the powers that be have decided on a pseudo-modern standard of justice and outlook on honor and violence in Ossirus for whatever reason we have to make the best of it.

The railroady "happy ending" precedent was set and we are stuck - that to me is the travesty.

I imagine life in LEW a little more harsh and violent. It is a world, in which highly skilled and heavily armed men live and die by their reputations, skill with a sword, spell and quick. Just me.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Patlin]

Pbartender, keep in mind that this is way after the fact and that these comments are being made with the benefit of hindsight and dispassion. I don't think even those critical of the response time intended to criticize you personally.

As I said before, having officers watching certain bars at certain times of day is SOP here in Colorado Springs, and the RDI would definitely be on the top of my list for guard attention. It's a mercenary bar! Most taverns in Orussus probably cater to neighborhoods, merchants, craftsmen, or even guards. I think the response time was sensible, even without a specific request from Joe, and most certainly with one.