General Discussion Thread IX

[Knight Otu]

That's (almost) all, folks!

Quarion Holimion was born in a forest in the southeastern part of the Vastermarch Cities. His home forest was on the very edge of the region and the surrounding area was almost completely unpopulated by humans. Quarion and his moon elf community lived in a series of clearings in the woods, mostly keeping to themselves, only minor trading with distant settlements bringing them news of the outside world. Quarion spent his first half century in that forest, learning the ways of his ancestors with the bow and sword.
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Dexerion: Vestermarch Cities: I know they have mostly or at least a large population of High Elves from the description of Rivenblight, but I would like to know more. This could prehaps be a good location for a small part of my campaign. I need to know the capital city. government. population. ect.
Me: All I can find on the Vastermarch comes from the Rivenblight description.
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Armgill’s Heirloom: The Armgill’s are somewhat well known in the city. They own a fleet of small trading ships that run between Orussus and the Vestermarch cities, as well as a few warehouses along the docks.

The Vastermarch cities trade with Fallon, at least via the Armgills.

 

[Knight Otu]

As an added thought, the original idea for the birthplace of my third (and human) character was one of the Vastermarch Cities, but I might change that, as the Vastermarch is predominantly (but not necessarily exclusively) elven.

 

[Manzanita]

Thanks, Otu. I think the Vastermach cities should be predominately human at this point. Elves, to me, live in forests, not in fertile plains. Perhaps the elves could have withdrawn over the centuries to Silverwood and Ravenblight.

 

[El Jefe]

Oh, it certainly is interesting, I'll agree, but I consider it to be evil (specifically, it is Lawful Evil) to force your own personal code on others who don't follow it to the point of killing them, particularly when you are not willing to accept the reverse in return.

That's a sticky wicket. Everyone here has there own definition of good and evil that they use for operating in the real world. There are SRD definitions for how to apply those things in the game world, and in this particular case there are some ambiguities.

Anton's alignment is declared to be Lawful Neutral. Per the SRD, that means, "(S)he may believe in personal order and live by a code or standard, or she may believe in order for all and favor a strong, organized government." That's Anton. Notice that for Lawful Neutral, they may believe in "order for all", even if "all" don't particularly care for it. Now, you may believe that's evil in real life terms (and you probably wouldn't be alone), but in the game reality, it ain't necessarily so.

I mean, look how easy it is to spin this. Per the SRD, "A lawful good character hates to see the guilty go unpunished." By Anton's code, the messenger was "guilty" and "going unpunished". I wouldn't try to stretch this into a lawful good act on a good day, but the framework is there. What does it say about Lawful Evil? "He plays by the rules but without mercy or compassion." That sounds like what he did, but consider, "He cares about tradition, loyalty, and order but not about freedom, dignity, or life." You've already seen Jdyn1's version of how Anton would rationalize that what he did restored dignity to an unjust and undignified man.

But let's go to the core of what you said: "it is Lawful Evil to force your own personal code on others who don't follow it to the point of killing them". To which I would rejoin, but what if they believed it was their right to engage in child sacrifice, and the only way to stop them would be to kill some of them? How about a band of cutthroats (think stereotypical evil biker gang, complete with "code of honor" if you need an example) who were terrorizing a town? Should one necessarily submit oneself to "their code" in exchange for repudiating their beliefs (if necessary, with violence)?

It's just not as cut and dry as I think you made it seem. Seen from Anton's eyes, he only did what was expected of anyone, and the messenger was entirely at fault. In his eyes, it would be improper and dishonorable to submit to the local authorities...in his eyes, it is they who need to clean up their act, not he who needs to clean up his.

Now, by the standards of the society he was in (and by those of most present day societies), he is lawless and evil. If you want to argue that by standards outside of the game, Anton's code itself is the source of evil, I won't argue with you. Inside the game, I think the furthest you can go is Lawful with Evil Tendencies. But good luck arguing that with Anton (as I'm sure you've already seen.) Maybe the best thing that you could say about the situation is that neither side feels obligated to convert the other at the point of a sword...if that were true, Anton would be seriously considering how to raise an army to do that at the conclusion of Immortality Awakens.

 

[Knight Otu]

Of course, the whole group had "a couple of bad days" ever since they arrived in the town. Being deceived (not that it was intended by the deceiver), being tricked into killing a good dragon, being constantly nagged by its lover who also tries to kill herself, being kept out of the loop (the lover's father being called to the local lord, and the lover being put into the lord's carriage without informing them), being ignored partially (after the fact, there were some questions regarding the dragon I didn't see answered), and then one of them is insulted to boot.

And that ignores the stuff with the hobgoblins and the little girl and her doggie.

 

[Patlin]

More potentially morally questionable adventurer/civilian contacts are going on at the moment in Rats in a Maze, btw.

 

[Dungannon]

More potentially morally questionable adventurer/civilian contacts are going on at the moment in Rats in a Maze, btw.

I'm still deciding how I'm gonna play this. I don't really want a "LAPD vs. Rodney King" situation, at least not yet.

 

[Knight Otu]

I'm still deciding how I'm gonna play this. I don't really want a "LAPD vs. Rodney King" situation, at least not yet.

Send in the sun-resistant vampire hordes.




Oh, was I supposed to keep them secret?

 

[Dungannon]

Send in the sun-resistant vampire hordes.




Oh, was I supposed to keep them secret?

Hey, I'm saving them for R3!

 

[Patlin]

I'm still thinking wererats, myself...