General Discussion Thread X

[Bront]

Except, you keep saying that paying off the lease is at 50% of shop income but the entry under Job System says it's 25%.

And some other questions:

1. Can Tarag count his +2 racial bonus on working with metal or stone in the calculation of job income? It is a permanent bonus but some of the stuff (leather armour, for example) isn't metal.
2. I have an idea that Tarag would like to make his own MW artisan tools (a traditional right of passage for smiths, as I understand it). What sort of Craft check ought I to make for him? Craft (Blacksmithing)? Or could I substitute one of the related Craft skills he has - e.g. Craft (Weaponsmithing)?

Thanks.

'N

My bad.

1) I'd say no since it doesn't count for everything, or compromise on it only counting for half.

2) Blacksmithing.

 

[Rae ArdGaoth]

Funny, because I disagree with Bront on both counts. =P

1) I'd say yes, because Tarag is has both Craft (armorsmithing) and Craft (weaponsmithing), so he'd use the higher of those two, and since the vast majority of weapons are metal, the dwarven bonus would almost always apply. Also, Craft(bowmaking) is a separate skill, so he's not making any wood weapons besides... what, clubs?

2) On the Craft items table, I don't even see entries for "blacksmithing". And actually, "carpentry" isn't on there either. Hm. Anyway, I think it would be perfectly reasonable for a weaponsmith to make his own tools with his weaponsmithing skill. It doesn't sound right to me that he should have to take a whole extra skill ("blacksmithing", which isn't even on the table except potentially as "varies") just to make some heat resistant hammers and tongs and... whatever else smiths use.

 

[Bront]

1) Any weapon with a wodden haft doesn't qualify (which is about half of them, including axes.)

2) You can craft untrained, and since they're metal tools, he gets bonuses to that, and he might even have some assistance. But blacksmiting is the way to go for tools.

 

[Rae ArdGaoth]

1) Any weapon with a wodden haft doesn't qualify (which is about half of them, including axes.)

Where is this rule?

2) You can craft untrained, and since they're metal tools, he gets bonuses to that, and he might even have some assistance. But blacksmiting is the way to go for tools.

I don't really disagree with you, but I find it strange that the Craft skill entry doesn't even mention blacksmithing, anywhere.

 

[Boddynock]

Well, with regard to the first point I'm actually of the same opinion as Bront - that the dwarven racial bonus doesn't apply to the job without qualification. The number of simple weapons and light armour with non-metallic components is relatively large.

I would be happy to apply half the bonus (i.e. +1), if general consensus agrees.

As to the blacksmithing, I understand Bront's reservations about using another skill but for the sake of a minor roleplaying issue I wouldn't bother with it. Even without ranks in Craft (Blacksmithing) Tarag still has a bonus of +8 ... but it still only takes 2 mediocre rolls (11 instead of 12 against DC 20 for a MW item) to blow the full gp and craft point cost for a set of tools. And I have no intention of investing in Craft (Blacksmithing) ranks, just for a set of MW artisans tools.

In this respect the LEW rules on crafting are much tougher than the SRD rules, where you have to fail the roll by 5 or more to lose half the gp cost.

 

[Bront]

Where is this rule?

I'm making an interpretation based on the rules of applying Mithril, which states it has to be all metal to benifit. I'd think a weapon or armor should fall under the same guidelines.

I don't really disagree with you, but I find it strange that the Craft skill entry doesn't even mention blacksmithing, anywhere.

Yeah, It's under "Varries" (Which is annoying).

 

[B4cchus]

I'm making an interpretation based on the rules of applying Mithril, which states it has to be all metal to benifit. I'd think a weapon or armor should fall under the same guidelines.

That seems like a rather far fetched assumption to me.
Following the same logic, i pose that it DOES apply to weapons with wooden hafts because adamantine, cold-iron and alchemical silvered weapons with wooden hafts are treated equally as weapons made entitely of metal.

 

[Bront]

That seems like a rather far fetched assumption to me.
Following the same logic, i pose that it DOES apply to weapons with wooden hafts because adamantine, cold-iron and alchemical silvered weapons with wooden hafts are treated equally as weapons made entitely of metal.

Interesting. I wasn't aware there was a significant difference in the wording.

I also find it interesting that you can't combine Darkwood and Mithril to create a light weapon like a battle axe.

 

[B4cchus]

I believe that restriction was added because the most noteworthy effect of mithral and darkwoord on weapons is weight reduction. That weight reduction only applies to the metal (or wooden in case of darkwood) parts of a weapon (since the wooden parts don't differ) so in weapons with 'combined' materials the weight reduction is limited.

Your suggestion to make a mithral weapon with a darkwoord haft sounds very interresting. The problem there lies in the cost calculation, since the cost of both materials is calculated by the weight of the wepaon: how much of the weight of a battleaxe consists of the haft and how much consists of the head?
The simple solution would be 50/50: making a mithral/darwood weapon cost 510 gp / lb.
The next problem is the cost of masterwork: the mithral price includes the cost for MW, darkwoord does not. By only paying for 1/2 the mithral cost that would result in a 'cheaper' MW item.

 

[Solange]

Your suggestion to make a mithral weapon with a darkwoord haft sounds very interresting. The problem there lies in the cost calculation, since the cost of both materials is calculated by the weight of the wepaon: how much of the weight of a battleaxe consists of the haft and how much consists of the head?
The simple solution would be 50/50: making a mithral/darwood weapon cost 510 gp / lb.
The next problem is the cost of masterwork: the mithral price includes the cost for MW, darkwoord does not. By only paying for 1/2 the mithral cost that would result in a 'cheaper' MW item.

Or you could simply handwave it and use the cost of Mithril, saying any wooden parts happen to be darkwood. More expensive, but simpler.