Gestalt BBEG vs. Non-Gestalt PCs?

[Veven1290]

The BBEG in one of my current campaigns is supposed to be this ancient warrior/sage dude who tapped into some mystical energy source a couple thousand years ago and was stopped from destroying the world by a group of sages who could not kill him but managed to imprison him in some sort of crystalline structure. The PCs accidentally set him loose and now they have been tasked with "getting" him (whatever that means)

aaaaanyways. I wanted him to be pretty unique but not over the top. I also wanted him to be a gish for sure but more powerful than any of the typical gish classes or multi-class combos.

The question is, is there any reliable way balance a Gestalt NPC against non-gestalt PCs? it will be the last battle of the campaign so it's alright if its really tough and even kills one or two of em, but i just don't want it to be impossible...i am thinking Warblade/sorcerer gestalt probably around level 14-17. Any suggestions?

thanks a lot for the help.

 

[SolitonMan]

I'd say that the gestalt is probably only worth +2 or +3 to the CR of the BBEG. If that. The thing about gestalt is that while it opens up a lot of options for the character, it doesn't increase the number of actions they receive. So he'll not be much better than a pure warblade OR pure sorcerer of equivalent, level, he'll just have better BAB, HD, Fort save and feat selection. And if you're not spending some of those feats on Battlecaster-type stuff, he'll not be able to wear armor and cast spells reliably.

What is his motivation? Is he still trying to achieve the goal he was stopped from reaching a couple thousand years ago? What sort of resources does he currently have available? If he has a few (or many) servants he might use them to soften up the party, buffing them with appropriate spells while they whittle away at the group. Then he can swoop in (literally, if he can fly, which he should) and take out the major threats, and mop up as needed.

It sounds like a fun game, good luck with the final battle!

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

If anything, balancing a gestalt NPC versus the PCs is probably really easy. An NPC only spends a few rounds doing things important to the PCs -- fighting them -- and with a few exceptions, gestalt does nothing to give him more actions in those rounds, or even to do much more damage than a straight classed regular character of his level. He'll have more staying power in hp and saves, and more options, but that's about it. In terms of CR, the major issue if anything would be the save boost from two classes. I could see that making life a lot harder for a spellcasting PC that depends on enemies failing their saving throws. The other thing that could get out of hand is if you make some super effective synergistic combo out of the gestalt. But unless you're trying to do that, it's unlikely to happen by accident.
I'd suggest Warblade/Wizard or Warblade/Psion, so that there's more usage out of one stat, Int, instead of also needing charisma. I'd say the gestalt's worth +2 CR, maybe only +1.

 

[Veven1290]

alright thanks a million to both of you. Stream, your posts are always helpful and i actually really like the idea of using a Psion instead of a sorc.

By the time they encounter him after releasing him i plan on him having quite a few minions. In fact the final battle will probably be more minions than the BBEG now that i think about it...since he will probably be busy trying to kill his immortal self with an ancient artifact that will consequently rend all living creatures of their souls (hence the PCs desire to stop him) corny, i know

thanks again for the help! i'm very glad i finally decided to become a member here.

 

[Philosopher]

I'd say the gestalt's worth +2 CR, maybe only +1.

Even a +2 to CR would be too much. A regular 15th (say) level NPC is CR 15. Two CR 15 creatures have an EL of 17 (CR +2). Since two regular 15th level NPCs have twice the actions of a single 15th level gestalt NPC, the EL of the latter wouldn't be as high. So, at most I'd give it a +1.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

That's true. And I generally think that PC class levels aren't worth 1 CR per level anyway, so I ammend my estimate. At most +1 CR, as Philosopher says.

 

[Verdande]

Let the lesson be this: Versatility is a great boon for players, but not so much for NPCs. Your bad guy will only be in combat for a little while, whereas your players will likely have many, many more.

 

[LuckyBoneDice]

so, he's an ancient warrior with unimaginable power?

Warblade is absolutely nasty for a BBEG, as is knight (ironically, knight is abslutely NASTY for a gestalt beatstick)

as for casting, go divine, having him "worship" ideals of power. Favored Soul with a flavor twist or even cleric (not a clericzilla build) would be absolutely sick!

and racially, a Primordial Giant (pick your fave giant. Might I suggest Death or Sun) and make him wear some nasty personally-crafted fullplate and have him going S&B because its all intimidation

 

[Herobizkit]

Having played a Monk//PsyWar gestalt, I can attest that there is little better in the way of pure melee power (expect maybe a Scythe-wielding Barbarian//Rogue in flanking position, which I also played).

Bottom line, the BBEG should not be alone. I'd say throw in a standard adventuring party with him as the gestalt commander.