Get pedantic on Feeblemind

[AuraSeer]

Feeblemind is a weird spell. It's a mind-affecting compulsion, but not "mind control" per se. It's an instantaneous effect that reduces ability scores, but is neither ability damage nor ability drain. What exactly is the effect? And in what various ways can it be fixed?

The spell description indicates that it can be fixed by heal, limited wish, wish, or miracle. Yet it doesn't specifically that those are the only possible fixes, so I'm wondering if other spells can be effective.

Break enchantment seems like it should work, as long as the caster level check succeeds. It's useful against enchantments, even those of instantaneous duration, as long as they're no more than 5th level. FM is exactly 5th level.

Would a pair of lesser restorations work? My guess is no, but I could be wrong. LR says it "dispels any magical effects reducing one of the subject’s ability scores", but the feeblemind has instantaneous duration, so it doesn't seem to count as a "magical effect" that could be dispelled.

Greater restoration looks like a better bet, because it "removes all forms of insanity, confusion, and similar mental effects." The enfeebling is clearly a mental effect... right?

Feeblemind's description lists a bunch of things the affected creature is unable to do, such as speak, understand language, use Int- or Cha-based skills, etc. Is that a separate effect of the spell, or is it just elucidating the consequences of having Int and Cha of 1? That is, say my friend gets feebleminded, and I then cast fox's cunning and eagle's splendor on him to raise those ability scores to 5. Is he now able to speak Common again?

 

[szilard]

hmmm... if you manage to turn the Feebleminded creature into an animal or tree, could you reverse the Feeblemind via Awaken?

-Stuart

 

[frankthedm]

Sorry. the listed fixes are the only way. You might be able to make an argument for break enchantment, but the other effects have no chance. The character has less int than a typicle housepet. Handle animal will have more use than diplomacy with the character.

Feeblemind
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target: One creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes

If the target creature fails a Will saving throw, its Intelligence and Charisma scores each drop to 1. The affected creature is unable to use Intelligence- or Charisma-based skills, cast spells, understand language, or communicate coherently. Still, it knows who its friends are and can follow them and even protect them. The subject remains in this state until a heal, limited wish, miracle, or wish spell is used to cancel the effect of the feeblemind. A creature that can cast arcane spells, such as a sorcerer or a wizard, takes a –4 penalty on its saving throw.

Material Component: A handful of clay, crystal, glass, or mineral spheres.

 

[Zaruthustran]

Break Enchantment would totally work.

This spell frees victims from enchantments, transmutations, and curses. Break enchantment can reverse even an instantaneous effect. For each such effect, you make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level, maximum +15) against a DC of 11 + caster level of the effect. Success means that the creature is free of the spell, curse, or effect. For a cursed magic item, the DC is 25.

If the spell is one that cannot be dispelled by dispel magic, break enchantment works only if that spell is 5th level or lower.

If the effect comes from some permanent magic item break enchantment does not remove the curse from the item, but it does frees the victim from the item’s effects.

No ambiguity there.

 

[frankthedm]

Break Enchantment would totally work.

No ambiguity there.

If feeblemind was silent on it's curing methods, BE would have worked.

The subject remains in this state until a heal, limited wish, miracle, or wish spell is used to cancel the effect of the feeblemind.

 

[Corsair]

Break Enchantment would totally work.

No ambiguity there.

I had this argument with David Eckleberry when I worked at Turbine on Dungeons and Dragons Online. I claimed the same thing you did, and he was emphatic about Break Enchantment not working. Feeblemind is only intended to be removed by the listed spells according to him.

Seeing as his name is written in my PHB, and mine isn't, I was pretty much forced to go along with it.

 

[Cheiromancer]

The subject remains in this state until a heal, limited wish, miracle, or wish spell is used to cancel the effect of the feeblemind.

This means that if you use a heal, limited wish, miracle or wish spell then the feeblemind effect is canceled. It does not rule out other methods. It is permissive, not prohibitive. The text for break enchantment says that it can reverse an instantaneous enchantment of 5th level or lower. That describes feeblemind to a T.

If they intended something different, they should have written something different. (Like "feeblemind can only be canceled by...") But I'm going to invoke the Hypersmurf principle of rules interpretation: If it says X, then assume they mean X.

 

[PallidPatience]

And it says that the subject remains in that state until one of those spells is applied. Which means that even after BE is applied, you're in that state because the listed condition for the "until" trigger has not been met.

 

[Vegepygmy]

If they intended something different, they should have written something different. (Like "feeblemind can only be canceled by...") But I'm going to invoke the Hypersmurf principle of rules interpretation: If it says X, then assume they mean X.

I concur. Break enchantment works.

 

[Starglim]

edit: Mostly answered by others.

Feeblemind's description lists a bunch of things the affected creature is unable to do, such as speak, understand language, use Int- or Cha-based skills, etc. Is that a separate effect of the spell, or is it just elucidating the consequences of having Int and Cha of 1? That is, say my friend gets feebleminded, and I then cast fox's cunning and eagle's splendor on him to raise those ability scores to 5. Is he now able to speak Common again?

Fox's cunning and eagle's splendor will not raise his ability scores nor alter the feebleminded state.