Girdles, Gloves, Giants & Ogres, Oh My!

[Vraille Darkfang]

Recently it has come to my attention that some holdovers to the D&D rules set are still hanging on to near life (perhaps at 0 hp). Whatever.

I'm here to ask if any know of a rules set (say the Spalt books, Arms & Equipment Guide, Complete Warrior, etc) has finally nailed these things to their grave. Specifically, I'm talking about the Gauntlets of Ogre Power vs Belts of Giant Strength.

For Example:

Periapt of Wisdom: +2, +4, or +6
Headband of Intellect: +2, +4, or +6
Gloves of Dexterity: +2, +4, or +6
Cloak of Charisma: +2, +4, or +6
Amulet of Health (Con): +2, +4, or +6

Then we have Gauntlets of Ogre Power: +2, yet Belts of Giant Strength +4 or +6. Why is every other item got a specific slot, yet Strength get split up into 2. Plus, you can't wear Gloves of Dex +4 with Gauntlets of Ogre Power. The 3rd ed designers took great pains to make sure all the Ability Score enchancement items each took up a different Magic Item slot on the body. Except one. Why?

The answer of course lies in previous editions of the game. WAAAY back in second edtion, (when we actually had to use math to figure out if we hit, OK, got a THaC0 of 12, plus 3 longsword, trying to hit an AC -3, not to mention having to walk uphill, both ways! in the snow for 3 miles just to get to a game. Heck, some of us even had to write the numbers on our dice!). Anyway, back in 2nd ed there was a really cool item called Gauntlets of Ogre Power that gave you 18/00 strength (if you don't understand this, trust me, its good). Then, there were the really cool items, Girdles of Giant Strength, there was one for each giant type (hill, stone, storm, etc) and it gave you the Str of that type of Giant (19 for a Hill giant for example).

Now that they made up 3rd ed, they kept the old Gauntlet/Girdle system, yet split up all the other items into nice little bunches, you could exchange as you got more powerful. In effect, the Str items were kept that way just to appease the gamers of the previous addtion. As, now, either you're a convert (like me), of never going to 3rd ed, it seems a little foolish to keep this system.

Basically this is a long way of asking if anyone's seen an OFFICIALLY posted Belt of Giant Strength +2, or Gauntlets of Ogre Power +4 or +6. I term offically to include evrything with the Dungeons & Dragon logo released by WoTC, Dragon Magazine, & usually Dungeon Magazine. This is an anarchism of the past, that seems to me to hold on to an aspect of the past to the expense of the present & future.

Vraille Darkfang, First ed Gamer, 3rd ed Convert

 

[guedo79]

I think it has something to do with balance. I don't remember what book I was reading but they gave the break down for creation of races. One of the major points was to say Strength out weighs that other abilities by 2 to 1. So a +2 to strength should be accompanied with a total of -4 to other abilities. For example, the half-orc has a +2 Strength, with a –2 Intelligence and –2 Charisma. I don't have any books in front of me but I believe that carries on to other races like the half-ogre.

So the idea behind the belts and gauntlet is you have to choose strength. over the other abilities. So you'd be forced to take one over the other and not have the extra strength along with the other items.

Either that or they just ran out of slots.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Don't Periapts and Amulets take the same item slot?

My guess is that Gloves of Ogre Power are in the game since the very beginning, and thus they kept it that way, Sacred Cow and all...

AR

 

[James McMurray]

Yep, its historical. But nothing is stopping you from makinga belt of strength +2.

 

[Will]

Periapt of wisdom and amulet of health use the same slot, yes. Sort of a dent in the thesis...

As a DM, I'd probably say you can make gauntlets or belt of whatever Str level you want.

 

[dcollins]

Now that they made up 3rd ed, they kept the old Gauntlet/Girdle system, yet split up all the other items into nice little bunches, you could exchange as you got more powerful. In effect, the Str items were kept that way just to appease the gamers of the previous addtion. As, now, either you're a convert (like me), of never going to 3rd ed, it seems a little foolish to keep this system.

It's not purely about needing to "appease the gamers of the previous edition" or an oversight or anything like that. D&D is an attempt to simulate fantasy and mythological sources, and that's what these items are doing. They are inspired by the Norse god Thor's use of magical Gauntlets and a Girdle to increase his strength and be able to lift his hammer.

Frankly, I'd be sad to see D&D remove all of its mythological flavor and just be turned into a number-crunching exercise, no matter how well balanced that math might be.

Yep, its historical. But nothing is stopping you from makinga belt of strength +2.

... Except the need to House-Rule it into the game by the DM.

 

[Herpes Cineplex]

Periapt of wisdom and amulet of health use the same slot, yes. Sort of a dent in the thesis...

The 3.0 DMG errata corrected that by making them Bracers of Health instead (which they already were on the random wondrous items table). Did they change it back to an amulet in 3.5? Why would they do that? :\

And not only are gauntlets of ogre power a sacred cow, there's another weirder-looking sacred cow standing on its shoulders; the hammer of thunderbolts still requires both gauntlets of ogre power and a belt of giant strength to be worn in order to get the full effect, just as in previous versions.

Mind you, the hammer's an artifact now so I don't know who they're expecting to ever actually have such a thing, and I can't even begin to figure out why they set up the item that way in earlier versions. (EDIT: But apparently I would have if I'd previewed the thread just one more time before posting. Thor, huh? Go figure.)

--
some things are just too weird to die, i guess
ryan

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Forgot about the gloves, the belt, the hammer and thor. Good catch.

Dude, your name is Herpes

 

[dcollins]

The 3.0 DMG errata corrected that by making them Bracers of Health instead (which they already were on the random wondrous items table).

I disagree with that. The 3.0 errata wording is a bit tangled, but literally it says this: "p. 208 and 209, Bracers of health OR an amulet of: REPLACE 'amulet' with: bracers".

The thing is, what they're correcting is p. 208-209, the table where it's printed "bracers of health". If that's being modified, the only thing that can be done is change "bracers" --> "amulet". For example, there is no correction noted for p. 207 where the text actually details the "Amulet of Health".

Tangled wording aside, if the correction was on p. 208-209, the intention had to be removal of the word "bracers". This is consistent with what's in the 3.5 rules, as well.

 

[PaulGreystoke]

Basically this is a long way of asking if anyone's seen an OFFICIALLY posted Belt of Giant Strength +2, or Gauntlets of Ogre Power +4 or +6. I term offically to include evrything with the Dungeons & Dragon logo released by WoTC, Dragon Magazine, & usually Dungeon Magazine. This is an anarchism of the past, that seems to me to hold on to an aspect of the past to the expense of the present & future.

DMG p. 288 Behind the Curtain: Body Slot Affinities

Gauntlets - Destructive Power
Belt - Physical Improvement

Any of your examples would be legitimate magic items as they match the body slot affinities. Anyone with the appropriate item creation feats could make them at the normal cost, so they could be as common in your world as the ones in the DMG. Other body slots that might be appropriate for STR enhancers are the following:

Shirt - Physical Improvement
Bracers - Combat

In my campaign, I allowed a fighter to purchase a Belt of Giant Strength +2 to go with his Gloves of Dexterity +2. The cleric faced a similar dilemma with the Amulet of Health & the Periapt of Wisdom. While he in the end opted for the Periapt, I would have allowed him to purchase a Headband of Wisdom (Headband - Mental Improvement) if he had desired both. Given the flexibility & overlapping nature of the affinities, there usually isn't a problem with recreating items with standard effects in non-standard body slots.