Give me choices!

[Klaus]

Have you read the Silmarillion?

Feanor and the Noldor leave the Valar, kick open the halls of Angabad and tear down Morgoth the reclaim the Silmarills. Accounted the Greatest of the elves - and Feanor was the greatest elf that ever lived.

Now, as the Silmarils became the Sun and the Moon and Morgoth was more (much more) powerful than Sauron this is a level of power beyond anything seen in Lord of the Rings.

D&D gnomes, on the other hand, talk to moles and badgers.

Regardless of what is said in the Silmarillion, the description you quoted is more fit for D&D gnomes than D&D elves.

If dwarves are closer to the Gimli archetype (gruff warrior) than the Norse archetype (crafters of magical wonders), than the gnomes could fill in that niche. That'd make gnomes the makers of wonders who live (mostly) underground and weave illusions that can fool most mortals and quite a few immortals.

 

[RPG_Tweaker]

Feanor and the Noldor leave the Valar, kick open the halls of Angabad and tear down Morgoth the reclaim the Silmarills. Accounted the Greatest of the elves - and Feanor was the greatest elf that ever lived.

Actually...

The Nolodor arrived just in time to turn the tide of Morgoth's war on the Sindar. Fëanor pushed all the way to the gates of Angband, but was ambushed by a force of Balrogs. Fëanor was slain by Gothmog, never seeing the stones.

The remaining Noldor set up kingoms in Beleriand, and set a vigil on Angband as a bulwark against Morgoth. They were mostly successful until The Dagor Bragollach, where Morgoth unleashed the full might of his armies, led by the terrible dragon Glaurung. The forces of Elves and Men were broken and Morgoth overran Beleriand.

During this time, Beren and Lúthien stole one of the Silmirils, which eventually was passed down to Eärendil who used it to sail to Valinor. He pled with the Valar to forgive the Nolodor for their crimes and save middle-earth. The Valar agreed.

The host of the Valar came to middle earth and attacked Angband (The War of Wrath). Morgoth was utterly defeated; his forced destroyed and the remnants scattered. He was captured, his two remaining Silmarils confiscated, then he was cast in to the Void.

The Noldor did not defeat Morgoth. It was the Valar, Maiar, and Vanyar.

Now, as the Silmarils became the Sun and the Moon ...

The Moon and the Sun were made from a silver leaf and a golden fruit; all that remained of the Two Trees after Ungoliant drank them dry.

 

[GeorgeFields]

Actually...

The Nolodor arrived just in time to turn the tide of Morgoth's war on the Sindar. Fëanor pushed all the way to the gates of Angband, but was ambushed by a force of Balrogs. Fëanor was slain by Gothmog, never seeing the stones.

The remaining Noldor set up kingoms in Beleriand, and set a vigil on Angband as a bulwark against Morgoth. They were mostly successful until The Dagor Bragollach, where Morgoth unleashed the full might of his armies, led by the terrible dragon Glaurung. The forces of Elves and Men were broken and Morgoth overran Beleriand.

During this time, Beren and Lúthien stole one of the Silmirils, which eventually was passed down to Eärendil who used it to sail to Valinor. He pled with the Valar to forgive the Nolodor for their crimes and save middle-earth. The Valar agreed.

The host of the Valar came to middle earth and attacked Angband (The War of Wrath). Morgoth was utterly defeated; his forced destroyed and the remnants scattered. He was captured, his two remaining Silmarils confiscated, then he was cast in to the Void.

The Noldor did not defeat Morgoth. It was the Valar, Maiar, and Vanyar.

Thanks for the info. I had never read the Silmarillion. Your brief synopsis explains BLind Guardian's album, Nightfall in Middle Earth. Several song titles were mentioned in your post (War of Wrath, Noldor, Feanor).

I guess I'm going to HAVE to read the Silmarillion.

 

[Simon Marks]

Actually...

This is me, deeply embarrassed and sat in the dunce's corner.

Yeah, that sounds much more right.

I think the point's been made, however...

The Silmarillion isn't really covered by D&D before about 20th level.

The Silmarillion isn't just epic, it's deliberately mythic.

Still don't sound like Gnomes to me.

 

[Hussar]

Regardless of what is said in the Silmarillion, the description you quoted is more fit for D&D gnomes than D&D elves.

If dwarves are closer to the Gimli archetype (gruff warrior) than the Norse archetype (crafters of magical wonders), than the gnomes could fill in that niche. That'd make gnomes the makers of wonders who live (mostly) underground and weave illusions that can fool most mortals and quite a few immortals.

The problem is, dwarves are not just the Gimli archetype. They've also got the whole crafter thing woven in pretty tightly too. Their racial abilities with stone and metal in 3e directly tie into this. And the flavour for the race has always had the crafter of magical wonders thing tied in (despite the fact that they couldn't actually craft any magical wonders in earlier editions ).

Dwarves aren't just the grumpy stumpy. They are also the grumpy crafter as well.

The point is well made. The dwarven city, the elven enclave, these are both easily identifiable archetypes. The gnome city? What does a gnomish dwelling look like?

 

[Lurks-no-More]

The point is well made. The dwarven city, the elven enclave, these are both easily identifiable archetypes. The gnome city? What does a gnomish dwelling look like?

The closest archetypical idea that I can come up with is the smials of Tolkien's hobbits: partly underground dwellings, blending in with the surrounding countryside. (Honestly, gnomes make pretty good hobbits. )

 

[jasin]

The closest archetypical idea that I can come up with is the smials of Tolkien's hobbits: partly underground dwellings, blending in with the surrounding countryside. (Honestly, gnomes make pretty good hobbits. )

Indeed. They should've chucked out the ninja halflings (I'm sorry, Lidda, we love you, but still) and kept the burrowing trickster gnomes.

 

[jasin]

Sounds a lot like D&D gnomes, honestly.

Oh, come on.

Greatest in warfare? Greatest in crafts? Proudest? Need room to quarrel in?

There are similarities (jewelers, good with words), but they are little more than coincidental.

Tolkien didn't switch gnomes for Noldor, he just changed the name and kept the same concept, and that concept was never humourous burrowing illusionists.

 

[Odhanan]

The Noldor were called Gnomes because of the meaning of the word. "Gnome" is a term that was coined by Paracelsus and linked to the Greek notion of Knowledge. Ergo, "Gnomes" are the ones who know and study, which is what ultimately separated the Noldor from the other families of elves, particularly when considering the House of Fëanor himself, with the study and making of jewels, metals and works of art that would lead to the creation of the Silmarils.

 

[Tharen the Damned]

Definitely. They make great NPCs.

Seriously, I do think gnomes have an excellent mythological background... but they don't have a good one in terms of being a PC race, especially when you also include dwarves and elves.

Cheers!

And Dragonborn have a better PC race background?

The have a higher "cool" factor than the gnome, granted. But Dragonborn as a Core PC race in the corest of core books, the PHB?

I rather think that instead of an "identity crisis" the reason why th gnome and half orc (again) got shucked out was to replace them with the "cooler" races of Dragonborn and Tiefling.

It would have been easy to come up with sound mechanics AND sound fluff for both races (see Whizbangs idea or the Gnomes in Midnight or Dragonlance).

But cool sells better and therefore Gnomes are out.