Give me choices!

[ruleslawyer]

Elves have never struck me as puckish, or even fun. From Tolkien on they are the exemplars, they are old and wise and weep for the past and fallen forests. Gnomes have always been the jokesters, even from mythology.

Well, Tolkien's wood elves are quite puckish and fun, what with singing and joking about Bilbo and the dwarves and all the forest merrymaking. The high elves are the old, wise, serious ones.

So, on to other topics: Support characters are an interesting nut. IMO, I simply wouldn't miss having PCs need to spend actions on pure support, buffs, etc; attacking is always more fun! But then, I've always had problems with pure support in my own games; in 20 years of DM-ing, I never had anyone willing to play the cleric (and I mean *anyone*; it became a running joke that the PC party went through a long series of NPC cleric medics). No one in current party (Iron Heroes) even made mention of possibly playing a Hunter (the IH support class). So for me at least, the option to heal/buff AND do something offensive in the same round is a good thing.

 

[EATherrian]

I know that dwarves are good with crafting stone and metal. So let gnomes be good with crafting magic. In D&D, the archetype of the dwarvish warrior is far more connected with dwarves than the archetype of the crafter of wonders.

As for the communities, I wouldn't object to a gnome city looking like the deep enclaves in Norse myth: they sparkle with jewels, gold, etc... until you notice that it's all an illusion.

That's very close to my game world actually. My gnomes and elves are both descendants from the original fey race, but the elves were lost to war and pride. The gnomes on the other hand remain the keepers of the old truths of the world. In fact their trickster ways and humor are because of the things they know, the history of real and complete evil.

 

[pogre]

Just in regard to the half-orc:

How many people choose the half-orc race because they want to role-play a half-orc, and how many choose it because they want the Strength bonus?

Cheers!

Constantly, All-power attack All the time Half-Orc is taking a huge hit in this rules set! The half-orc barbarian was the classic dumb and fun meat grinder IMCs.

I can almost hear the gnashing of teeth in Suburban Chicago and to a lesser extent in Rhode Island.

 

[Klaus]

That is something elves do well. It's strong in Tolkien (who made all these magic rings, huh?) and also you have elves making the cloaks & boots of elvenkind...

###

Just in regard to the half-orc:

How many people choose the half-orc race because they want to role-play a half-orc, and how many choose it because they want the Strength bonus?

Cheers!

Mate, I know what elves can do in Tolkien. That has little to do with how they're portrayed in D&D. The D&D elves have always been much closer to Legolas than to Galadriel.

So you slice out the "crafters of magic" (and by crafting magic, I don't just mean items, I mean making up spells, traditions and whatnot) of the D&D elves (making them the wood elves they'll be in 4e) and give that bit to the gnomes.

In essence, the role of the 4e eladrin could have gone to the gnome.

 

[Geron Raveneye]

The problem is, dwarves are not just the Gimli archetype. They've also got the whole crafter thing woven in pretty tightly too. Their racial abilities with stone and metal in 3e directly tie into this. And the flavour for the race has always had the crafter of magical wonders thing tied in (despite the fact that they couldn't actually craft any magical wonders in earlier editions ).

Dwarves aren't just the grumpy stumpy. They are also the grumpy crafter as well.

Not to bothered about the whole gnomes thing (I guess somebody who simply stays in Mystara for generic D&D can't be bothered too much about some races being added or subtracted with every new edition ), but I just wanted to point out that, while every demi-human race back in Basic D&D had their artifacts to craft clan items, the dwarves also got the whole "craft magical items" thing later on. GAZ 6: The Dwarves of Rockhome actually premieres the system of spending XP for crafting items, and it was set up especially for Dwarves. Sure, it was easily yoinkable for elves, but it was mainly for dwarven itemcrafters. (And the DO mention gnomes there, too...as an extinct cousin race of dwarves that lost their underground cities to the kobolds! ). Also, I fondly remember the gnomish caravan that set out once a year all through Karameikos, bringing the exotic gnome crafted merchandise to everybody.

 

[Aeolius]

How many people choose the half-orc race because they want to role-play a half-orc, and how many choose it because they want the Strength bonus?

My first 3e PC was Nok; a portly half-orc bard with skills as a chef and taxidermist. He wore a bloodied leather apron and attacked with meat cleavers.

 

[GeorgeFields]

Not to bothered about the whole gnomes thing (I guess somebody who simply stays in Mystara for generic D&D can't be bothered too much about some races being added or subtracted with every new edition ), but I just wanted to point out that, while every demi-human race back in Basic D&D had their artifacts to craft clan items, the dwarves also got the whole "craft magical items" thing later on. GAZ 6: The Dwarves of Rockhome actually premieres the system of spending XP for crafting items, and it was set up especially for Dwarves. Sure, it was easily yoinkable for elves, but it was mainly for dwarven itemcrafters. (And the DO mention gnomes there, too...as an extinct cousin race of dwarves that lost their underground cities to the kobolds! ). Also, I fondly remember the gnomish caravan that set out once a year all through Karameikos, bringing the exotic gnome crafted merchandise to everybody.

They were also given stats for playable PCs in PC2: Top Ballista.

 

[helium3]

That always really disturbed me. I certainly don't see their race as being entertainment specialists. Maybe if you put one in a jester costume and threw fruit at it.

You're forgetting the other thing that Bards are good at and that's diplomacy.

 

[helium3]

Have you read the Silmarillion?

Feanor and the Noldor leave the Valar, kick open the halls of Angabad and tear down Morgoth the reclaim the Silmarills. Accounted the Greatest of the elves - and Feanor was the greatest elf that ever lived.

Errrr. I have read the Silmarillion and this isn't really how it works.

 

[EATherrian]

You're forgetting the other thing that Bards are good at and that's diplomacy.

I just flew here from Greyhawk and boy are my arms tired. So, anyone hear about this Vecna, sounds like less a lich and more like an organ donor gone wrong. Is this thing on? Be sure to tip your barmaids!