Give me choices!

[neceros]

Give me choices!

Multiple choice:
1.) Purple
2.) Red
3.) White

1.) Golden Wyvern Adept
2.) Golden Wyvern Initiate
3.) Golden Wyvern Master

1.)
2.) :\
3.)


Now... go!

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

You know they don't like to be reminded of that....

Certainly, why do you think this is on a messageboard as opposed to spoken out loud? Hopefully they haven't noticed computers or intarwebs yet they haven't been around that long. If so, well hopefully they have more fun things to do that doesn't involve seeing these boards or this post

 

[Olaf the Stout]

Third post in this archive. Too much to cram into a sig, sorry.

And all of this is being used in practice, not just in theory. I play a gnome illusionist/bard/gnome paragon this way in a Ptolus game, and in the game I run, there's two player character gnomes and a gnome settlement based on illusion, trickery, respect for nature and a love of steampunk technology.

Awesome write-up Whizbang!

Olaf the Stout

 

[Lanefan]

3.x edition Dwarves always struck me as too powerful. Dwarven Cleric seemed to me like the power combination from hell. I never saw one played, however.

I see one played every Friday night; and yes, when he gets all buffed up he's completely dominant; the rest of us sometimes in a tough fight just try to hang on long enough for him to get going. Thing is, it takes him so long to buff up that unless we know there's a battle coming it's over before he's ready...

That, and when he's done a full-ride buff routine there's precious little left for healing.

The problem, though, is not the class-race combo; it's the buffs. Unbuffed, he fits in nicely.

Lanefan

 

[.:avatar:.]

My impression of 4e design is that it's building a system that will give players distinct, meaningful actions.

Distinct means the gnome is gone. (If any race had an identity crisis, it was that one).

Meaningful means that the classes work in different ways, and each excels in something useful. It means that when your turn comes up, you actually have a choice to make, and your friends can't run your character by remote control. (Consider the Bard: haste, bardsong, finally act).

The characters will be active: your action isn't just allowing someone else to have fun at your expense. Your paladin gets to smite the enemy while giving a bonus to an ally.

All in all, I like the sound of the game that is being created.

Cheers!

You are probably right, yet there's a problem: fun beats logic.

I mean, fighter wack monsters to deal them damage: isn't kind of funny that cleric/paladin attack them to heal and boost?
I know nothing about mechanics, so I can only guess that dedicated full round support actions are more powerful than the others.

I'd preferred aura effects than this strange way of using a monster as a launch platform for buffs: this way you could act freely and still give bonuses, without healing surge coming out of your critical strikes.

Does anyone have ideas on how to get different mechanics and still give more space & fun to support classes?

 

[Sylrae]

Healing Potions work great at higher levels. Or magic items that heal "Armor of Healing"- such as by John M. Richards. In Dragon (Dunno which issue, pre 310). Every time you take damage it heals you a cure light wounds. Holds 50 charges. Make improved versions.

Or be creative with your potions. use a beer hat with bendy tubing straws so you can drink potions as swift actions, or have straws that lead to pockets. just suck the stra and *schllrp* d8+3 hit points. or what have you.

The most interesting campaign I played was a swashbuckling airship pirate campaign where everyone made and brought their characters in advance. Everyone made some rogue or rogue like character. Everyone had d6'es and skill points out the ass. Nobody could heal. It was the most amusing game I've ever played, and we didnt even miss the cleric.

 

[ruemere]

Experiences on clerics in 3.* E...

Why the potions are not enough at higher levels:
- permanent ability damage,
- level drain,
- poisons,
- massive damage effects.

What is better than a cleric in party?
Answer: Two clerics. Why? Because the can keep the fighters going twice as long or against twice the number of usual opponents or, when you down one of them, the other can raise the fallen one.

When does the party find themselves out of their depth?
Answer: When they realize that their pots have been dispelled (damaged/stolen), their archetypical 8 hours of rest does not recover their resources and their cleric is out spell slots at the beginning of the day.

How do you send the party fleeing to nearest town?
Answer: Kill their cleric and use numerous little damage spell sources (hint: kobolds with magic missiles).

When does a cleric have fun?
Answer: When he is not rolling healing dice.
Answer II: When he can use a non-healing non-buffing spell.

Who is your best friend in gaming troupe?
Answer: A player who does not mind reading books while waiting for his cleric character to finally get his turn in combat (and use some healing spells).

When does the cleric fight better than a fighter, cast spells better than wizard and heals/buffs effectively?
Answer: When all he needs to care for, is himself.
Answer II: When there are enough clerics in a party to do something besides healing/buffing.




Regards,
Ruemere

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

I see one played every Friday night; and yes, when he gets all buffed up he's completely dominant; the rest of us sometimes in a tough fight just try to hang on long enough for him to get going. Thing is, it takes him so long to buff up that unless we know there's a battle coming it's over before he's ready...

That, and when he's done a full-ride buff routine there's precious little left for healing.

The problem, though, is not the class-race combo; it's the buffs. Unbuffed, he fits in nicely.

Lanefan

I don't see that as being a problem for the Cleric class. You've already pointed out the flaw in the plan - the amount of time it takes to buff. I found that distinctly unfun when I played a Psychic Warrior. I could totally prod buttock, but only once I'd spent three or four rounds watching my comrades being munched on.

If a Cleric wants to spend ages buffing rather than actually just fighting or healing, then that's a valid and great choice, but I don't see it as a problem for the buff spells or the Cleric.

And if the DM wants to be a little more evil, he can throw several low-level challenges at the party in quick sucession - that way the Clerics buffs will run out, or he'll run out of spell slots, and he can be worn down.

 

[jasin]

Healing Potions work great at higher levels.

Come on! A 10th-level Con 16 fighter has about 89 hp. To heal him back from half to full is 10 potions, or 500 gp. Do you honestly consider that to be working great?

Or be creative with your potions. use a beer hat with bendy tubing straws so you can drink potions as swift actions,

Riiight.

 

[jasin]

If a Cleric wants to spend ages buffing rather than actually just fighting or healing, then that's a valid and great choice, but I don't see it as a problem for the buff spells or the Cleric.

I played a self-buffing cleric at around 12th level, and I've had little problem with time.

Greater magic weapon and magic vestment (on both shield and armour) left me with the best fighting equipment in the party for much of the adventuring day. In a serious fight, divine power + Quickened divine power gave +9 to attacks and +7-8 to damage in a single round.

There's still the vulnerability to dispel, the fact that spells can get used up in multiple smaller fights and such... but the 3.5 cleric doesn't need to spend much combat time buffing to become a killing machine.