Ulorian - Agent of Chaos
Legend
Me too. I've been curious, but never got around to actually asking.Iron_Chef said:Huh. Well now. Looks like I can finally get a good night's sleep and stop wondering. Thanks.
Give me the complete picture: WP/VP
- Thread starter sinmissing
- Start date
genshou
First Post
Ah, it seems you have conviction about this, Grasshopper. When you start to try converting vp/wp to conform to D&D rules and run into the inevitable roadblocks, remember the EN Worlder that is genshou. I have addressed them all and believe it is every individual's place to develop their own D&D vp/wp ruleset to address how it should affect their playing style, but I can provide training and assistance on your journey.Iron_Chef said:
genshou
First Post
If you're looking for alternate critical rules to implement D&D weapons with vp/wp, take the following invention on my part. Some of the descriptive text (such as the +4 bonus for certain weapons) is based on specific house rules in Pledge of Tyranny; this is a direct copy & paste from the Tome of House Rules 
Note on Critical Multipliers: As a house rule, all weapons have a critical multiplier 1 less than normal. This is not to water down critical hits but rather to integrate critical multipliers and the Star Wars VP/WP system properly. Critical hits are not only deadly, they're even deadlier than before.
Critical Hits
When you make an attack roll and get a natural roll result within your threat range (typically 20, but some weapons have a natural range as wide as 18-20, and magic and feats can further widen the range) and hit against the target's Defense, you have scored a threat. If your attack roll is a natural 20, it automatically hits against the target's Defense in addition to being a threat. A threat might be a critical hit. To find out whether it's a critical hit, you immediately make another attack roll with all the same modifiers as the attack roll that scored the threat (the kukri, falcata, and katana add an additional +4 enhancement bonus only to this second attack roll). If the second attack roll also results in a hit, your attack deals a critical hit. (The second roll just needs to hit against the target's Defense to confirm a critical hit, you don't need to roll a second roll within the threat range.) A natural 20 on the second roll is an automatic success on the confirmation roll, and a natural 1 is an automatic failure, just as with standard attack rolls.
If the second roll is a miss, then your attack roll just deals the damage of a regular hit. A critical hit against a heroic opponent (that is, one with one or more levels in a PC class or a prestige class) with vitality points remaining means that you apply the weapon's normal damage, multiplied by its critical multiplier - 1, to the target's vitality points.
Because most weapons are x1, this means that they deal no damage to vitality points (damage x 0 = 0). However, in addition, you deal the weapon's normal damage directly to the target's wound points, regardless of the number of vitality points remaining. A critical hit against a non-heroic opponent (an opponent with no levels in a PC class or a prestige class), or against a heroic opponent with no vitality points remaining before damage is dealt, deals damage the same way, with any vitality damage that would apply instead targeting wound points as normal, and then the target must make a Fortitude saving throw to avoid death, with the save DC equal to the damage dealt.
A weapon being used to deal subdual, or in other words, nonlethal damage cannot score a critical hit.
Note: Because I am deviating from the standard rules to integrate weapons not normally available in the Star Wars RPG (where the VP/WP system is from), I will now include an example to help show what I mean.
Seven low-level thugs (1st-level human and half-elf Warriors) and one mid-level Zhentarim agent (5th-level drow Ranger) ambush Evendur Greycastle the scout/spy and Mikhael Nobeard the paladin, two infamous 8th-level adventurers, in a darkened alley in Waterdeep. During the course of the fight, a thug gets in a lucky shot and hits Mikhael with a light crossbow bolt with an attack roll of 20 + 2 = 22, an automatic hit. The thug's confirmation roll is a 17 + 4 = 21, which is barely enough to hit Mikhael’s AC of 21. The thug rolls damage and gets a 5 as his bolt strikes Mikhael's body (no multiplication because the light crossbow has a standard multiplier of x2, decreased by 1 because of house critical rules). While Mikhael’s field plate would normally make the assault less threatening, he was not anticipating a battle at the time and is thus unarmored, and the bolt reduces his wound points from 15 to 10. Mikhael easily makes the saving throw to avoid being knocked out at the end of the round.
The next round, Evendur's luck comes together as one of his twin mithril longswords cuts deep into a thug’s body. In game terms, a natural roll of 20 makes a threat, and Evendur's confirmation roll results in a successful critical hit. Because the thug has only wound points, Evendur’s attack is especially deadly. The longsword is a x1 weapon (remember to modify weapons based on my rules), so he gets the weapon's normal damage dealt to wound points and the target thug must make a Fortitude saving throw to resist death. Evendur rolls a 6 and gets +3 damage bonus from Strength and favored enemy bonuses, for a total of 9 damage, and the unarmored thug is reduced from 15 wound points to 6. The thug makes a Fortitude saving throw (DC 9) against the wound and rolls a 3 + 4 = 7, not enough to overcome the wound. He gurgles and coughs up blood as he falls to the cobblestones, dead.
A few rounds later, the Zhentarim agent, who has lost all his hired muscle, joins the fight after a short dialogue. After a few rounds of intense fighting, Evendur and the drow are both reduced to wound points. Mikhael strikes first with his +1 holy greataxe against their foe and scores a critical hit, a hit which could potentially kill even the strongest of men, despite their armor. Mikhael's greataxe has a critical multiplier of x2, and he deals 24 points of wound damage, reducing the already injured foe to -11 wound points after damage reduction is applied. The Zhentarim agent is sliced asunder right through his breastplate, and the adventurers escape again...
Note on Critical Multipliers: As a house rule, all weapons have a critical multiplier 1 less than normal. This is not to water down critical hits but rather to integrate critical multipliers and the Star Wars VP/WP system properly. Critical hits are not only deadly, they're even deadlier than before.
Critical Hits
When you make an attack roll and get a natural roll result within your threat range (typically 20, but some weapons have a natural range as wide as 18-20, and magic and feats can further widen the range) and hit against the target's Defense, you have scored a threat. If your attack roll is a natural 20, it automatically hits against the target's Defense in addition to being a threat. A threat might be a critical hit. To find out whether it's a critical hit, you immediately make another attack roll with all the same modifiers as the attack roll that scored the threat (the kukri, falcata, and katana add an additional +4 enhancement bonus only to this second attack roll). If the second attack roll also results in a hit, your attack deals a critical hit. (The second roll just needs to hit against the target's Defense to confirm a critical hit, you don't need to roll a second roll within the threat range.) A natural 20 on the second roll is an automatic success on the confirmation roll, and a natural 1 is an automatic failure, just as with standard attack rolls.
If the second roll is a miss, then your attack roll just deals the damage of a regular hit. A critical hit against a heroic opponent (that is, one with one or more levels in a PC class or a prestige class) with vitality points remaining means that you apply the weapon's normal damage, multiplied by its critical multiplier - 1, to the target's vitality points.
Because most weapons are x1, this means that they deal no damage to vitality points (damage x 0 = 0). However, in addition, you deal the weapon's normal damage directly to the target's wound points, regardless of the number of vitality points remaining. A critical hit against a non-heroic opponent (an opponent with no levels in a PC class or a prestige class), or against a heroic opponent with no vitality points remaining before damage is dealt, deals damage the same way, with any vitality damage that would apply instead targeting wound points as normal, and then the target must make a Fortitude saving throw to avoid death, with the save DC equal to the damage dealt.
A weapon being used to deal subdual, or in other words, nonlethal damage cannot score a critical hit.
Note: Because I am deviating from the standard rules to integrate weapons not normally available in the Star Wars RPG (where the VP/WP system is from), I will now include an example to help show what I mean.
Seven low-level thugs (1st-level human and half-elf Warriors) and one mid-level Zhentarim agent (5th-level drow Ranger) ambush Evendur Greycastle the scout/spy and Mikhael Nobeard the paladin, two infamous 8th-level adventurers, in a darkened alley in Waterdeep. During the course of the fight, a thug gets in a lucky shot and hits Mikhael with a light crossbow bolt with an attack roll of 20 + 2 = 22, an automatic hit. The thug's confirmation roll is a 17 + 4 = 21, which is barely enough to hit Mikhael’s AC of 21. The thug rolls damage and gets a 5 as his bolt strikes Mikhael's body (no multiplication because the light crossbow has a standard multiplier of x2, decreased by 1 because of house critical rules). While Mikhael’s field plate would normally make the assault less threatening, he was not anticipating a battle at the time and is thus unarmored, and the bolt reduces his wound points from 15 to 10. Mikhael easily makes the saving throw to avoid being knocked out at the end of the round.
The next round, Evendur's luck comes together as one of his twin mithril longswords cuts deep into a thug’s body. In game terms, a natural roll of 20 makes a threat, and Evendur's confirmation roll results in a successful critical hit. Because the thug has only wound points, Evendur’s attack is especially deadly. The longsword is a x1 weapon (remember to modify weapons based on my rules), so he gets the weapon's normal damage dealt to wound points and the target thug must make a Fortitude saving throw to resist death. Evendur rolls a 6 and gets +3 damage bonus from Strength and favored enemy bonuses, for a total of 9 damage, and the unarmored thug is reduced from 15 wound points to 6. The thug makes a Fortitude saving throw (DC 9) against the wound and rolls a 3 + 4 = 7, not enough to overcome the wound. He gurgles and coughs up blood as he falls to the cobblestones, dead.
A few rounds later, the Zhentarim agent, who has lost all his hired muscle, joins the fight after a short dialogue. After a few rounds of intense fighting, Evendur and the drow are both reduced to wound points. Mikhael strikes first with his +1 holy greataxe against their foe and scores a critical hit, a hit which could potentially kill even the strongest of men, despite their armor. Mikhael's greataxe has a critical multiplier of x2, and he deals 24 points of wound damage, reducing the already injured foe to -11 wound points after damage reduction is applied. The Zhentarim agent is sliced asunder right through his breastplate, and the adventurers escape again...
ruleslawyer
Registered User
Incidentally, you can read the entire VP/WP system (D&D version) here:
https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040206a&page=3
https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040206a&page=3
ruleslawyer
Registered User
My bad. "Official D&D variant version," I guess.genshou said:You know, I've never actually read that in all these years of using vp/wp in D&D games.
genshou
First Post
I'm not too fond of the "Official D&D variant version" for the same reason as GlassJaw. It just seems like they didn't include as much detail about the system as they could have, specifically things like armor DR, poison and other effects vs. vitality points, etc. No, I prefer my own version. But that's the URL I point people to when they want to learn about the vp/wp system.ruleslawyer said:My bad. "Official D&D variant version," I guess.
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