[Gleemax]Another thing not to like.

[D.Shaffer]

Now from what I've read in this thread (and I haven't quite read all of it yet), does it now mean that Wizards can potentially publish anything posted from their old boards free of charge because it is on forums.gleemax.com now? Or am I wrong in my thinking and the old Wizards boards are still separate from Gleemax even though it is on the same website address?

If the Wizards boards are like most official game forums, they already have the rights to anything you post on them, it's usually in their terms of use which you 'sign' when you register for the board. They do this because (and this usually applies more to the smaller companies) the designers/writers often read those forums and they dont want to be sued in case they publish something that's similar to something you wrote and they read.

 

[Hussar]

There is another side of the coin as well.

Look at the Paizo boards, specifically the Adventure Path boards. Quite often fans will create material, ask if they can toss it up, and be told no because it violates WOTC IP. For example, one user created stat blocks for all the encounters in the Savage Tide to date. Fantastic bit of work. Truly excellent.

But, he has to do an end run around by sending it through email because he can't toss up a link on the Paizo boards.

Gleemax, OTOH, will allow you to use WOTC IP. Thus, I can fully stat out a mind flayer warlock/binder, and post it without worry. Heck, I can post an adventure using all that and not worry about violating IP. That's pretty cool.

 

[starwed]

It's debatable if game rules can even be protected by copyright anyways,

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html

What's Not covered by Copyright:


Ideas, procedures, methods, systems, processes, concepts, principles, discoveries, or devices, as distinguished from a description, explanation, or illustration

It's a bit less debatable than that, AFAIK:
U.S. Copyright Office - Games

Copyright protects only the particular manner of an author’s expression in literary, artistic, or musical form. Copyright protection does not extend to any idea, system, method, device, or trademark material involved in the development, merchandising, or playing of a game. Once a game has been made public, nothing in the copyright law prevents others from developing another game based on similar principles.

Some material prepared in connection with a game may be subject to copyright if it contains a sufficient amount of literary or pictorial expression. For example, the text matter describing the rules of the game, or the pictorial matter appearing on the gameboard or container, may be registrable.

I suppose that the CYA lawyers have something to worry about. I just don't get what it is, given the above.

 

[I'm A Banana]

As a suggestion, have the TOS say someting like "Publishing on Gleemax bears no relevance to copyright issues. By posting here, you agree to not let the fact you posted here or the content of your posts here be any sort of factor in determining a copyright infringement case." This makes posting on Gleemax "tanslucent" to copyright issues. Wizards won't be more liable to being sued for copyright infringement by someone who posted a card on Gleemax, but won't be less liable for being sued for using your IP that you posted on your own site and on Gleemax. It will allow a publisher to talk about his product (in posts, not just on his page), a designer interested in protecting his creations could host copies outside of Gleemax that will serve as prior art, and so on.

That's good, I'd be pretty okay with that, since it gives authors a pretty simple way to protect themselves, while still allowing WotC to lick the cookies that aren't already licked.

 

[Baby Samurai]

It sounds like being a Resident Alien of the USA – you can't vote, you can’t claim welfare/benefits, but you can be summoned for jury duty, and they can draft you, should the draft come back – deal!

 

[Scott_Rouse]

True. However, there is an official policy by WotC granting specific sites to use the title "official" and publish material based on specific settings. I know that birthright.net works under this license, and that athas.org is likewise official (leading to two official 3e Dark Sun settings - the net one, and the Dragon one...). I suspect Canonfire! does the same. That said, I don't believe Gleemax's TOS will restrict other licenses. It will merely provide a "license" to publish original content based on wizard's PI on Gleemax.

I am, BTW, grateful and appreciative of WotC's support of official fan sites.

It is my understanding this was little more than a handshake agreement done years ago. We maintain regular contact with many of the fansites and they do good job of maintaining the sites and keeping quality high. The current fansite policy is pretty vague and only really addresses use of content from Wizards.com

 

[Scott_Rouse]

I figure I'll go ahead and ask this one last time:

For anyone who is familiar with the Gleemax boards: what is the draw? What is it that those boards provide that is unique to that site? Is there a bell or whistle that makes it a different animal from ENWorld? Is there a difference between ENWorld and Gleemax beyond ownership by WotC?

The boards are only one part of the whole Gleemax offering. One of the coolest things will be the personal pages where you'll be able to do a lot of different social networking web 2.0 type functions like customizing your page, creating friends lists, blogging, subscribing to articles and blogs, storing things like decklists, warbands, campaign notes etc.

Plus there are wikis, the board game portal, etc

 

[Yair]

It is my understanding this was little more than a handshake agreement done years ago. We maintain regular contact with many of the fansites and they do good job of maintaining the sites and keeping quality high. The current fansite policy is pretty vague and only really addresses use of content from Wizards.com

Birthright's agreement with Wizards, written by "Jim Butler, Brand Manager D&D Worlds Wizards of the Coast, Inc.", can be seen here. I'm not sure of the date, but the page also includes policy set by David Wise, from 2007. It seems like WotC has a very specific agreement and relationship with Birthright.net, that extends far beyond "a handshake agreement done years ago".That is, frankly, partly why I commended WotC in my previous post and I'd be disappointed to learn it isn't so.

 

[Vocenoctum]

I figure I'll go ahead and ask this one last time:

For anyone who is familiar with the Gleemax boards: what is the draw? What is it that those boards provide that is unique to that site? Is there a bell or whistle that makes it a different animal from ENWorld? Is there a difference between ENWorld and Gleemax beyond ownership by WotC?

Every board has their own feel, and their own clique. When EN's clique is too irritating, you go to Gleemax, when the reverse, you come back here.

 

[Vocenoctum]

That's one case. My solution isn't "perfect" in that it allows Wizards to do that, but it at least offers protection to those willing to invest in it. If you're just a fan posting on Wizard's boards, you'll still need to trust Wizard's goodwill not to publish your work. But if you're not inclined to trust them, you could protect yourself with relatively no effort. This is especially important to publishers, that can now discuss their published works without risk of WotC taking over. For example...

<snip>

That's a big difference.

The situation you need to include is one in which WotC designs Material in Janurary 07, publishes that material in June of 08, meanwhile in Dec of 07, someone posts a similar material to Gleemax. By your system, they'd also have to post it to their own site or something. Either way, if Gleemax is the only way WotC could have seen it, they need a defense against that person saying "you saw it on gleemax, so you owe me!"

If you can't say "you saw it on gleemax!" then you're really not protecting the work at all. You'd have to prove that WotC saw your work outside of Gleemax, and you'd still not be able to defend your material if they stole it. It's basically the same thing.