D&D 5E Gloom stalker dead ambusher questions

[jgsugden]

In most games, the answer to how this works is going to be answered by the DM, not the message board.

The Shield Master Ruling comes out of the following tweet: . That tweet is specific to BONUS ACTIONS triggering off an action.

The rules and rulings are silent to how this works for a free action triggering off an action. It is up to the DM to rule, as they may decide the Tweet referenced above applies just as much to free actions as bonus actions, or they might decide it is different and rule it the other way.

At my table: You need to make the bonus attack after any attacks that were part of your attack action. Thus, a Battlemaster 11, Gloom Stalker 3 would have the following order of attacks if they action surged on the first turn of combat:

Attack 1
Attack 2
Attack 3
Gloom Stalker Free Attack
Action Surge
Attack 1B
Attack 2B
Attack 3B
Gloom Stalker Free Attack B

If they were hasted, the hasted attack could be inserted after either Gloom Stalker Attack (or first), and if they were to weapon fighting they could do the TWF attack anytime after the first Gloom Stalker Free Attack (including disrupting the second action's attacks).

 

[UngeheuerLich]

In most games, the answer to how this works is going to be answered by the DM, not the message board.

The Shield Master Ruling comes out of the following tweet: . That tweet is specific to BONUS ACTIONS triggering off an action.

The rules and rulings are silent to how this works for a free action triggering off an action. It is up to the DM to rule, as they may decide the Tweet referenced above applies just as much to free actions as bonus actions, or they might decide it is different and rule it the other way.

At my table: You need to make the bonus attack after any attacks that were part of your attack action. Thus, a Battlemaster 11, Gloom Stalker 3 would have the following order of attacks if they action surged on the first turn of combat:

Attack 1
Attack 2
Attack 3
Gloom Stalker Free Attack
Action Surge
Attack 1B
Attack 2B
Attack 3B
Gloom Stalker Free Attack B

If they were hasted, the hasted attack could be inserted after either Gloom Stalker Attack (or first), and if they were to weapon fighting they could do the TWF attack anytime after the first Gloom Stalker Free Attack (including disrupting the second action's attacks).

There is no free action involved. It just gets added to the number of allowed attacks.

 

[Flamestrike]

In most games, the answer to how this works is going to be answered by the DM, not the message board.

The Shield Master Ruling comes out of the following tweet: . That tweet is specific to BONUS ACTIONS triggering off an action.

The rules and rulings are silent to how this works for a free action triggering off an action.

It's not triggering 'off' an action. It (the extra attack) happens at an unspecified time during the action.

It's up to the player to decide when during that action it (the extra attack) occurs.

 

[jgsugden]

There is no free action involved. It just gets added to the number of allowed attacks.

A diferrence without consequence. And frankly, it is kind of odd to say it isn't something when that thing isn't defined in 5E.

There isn't really a "free action" in 5E, but the terminology from prior editions is often utilized to describe situations such as here, where a "thing" is allowed to happen in certain circumstances, especially when it does something that usually requires an action (making an attack is usually an action).

 

[jgsugden]

It's not triggering 'off' an action. It (the extra attack) happens at an unspecified time during the action.

It's up to the player to decide when during that action it (the extra attack) occurs.

Really? So if their DM disagrees, the player can tell the DM they're wrong and play it how they want? Interesting opinion.

 

[Flamestrike]

Really? So if their DM disagrees, the player can tell the DM they're wrong and play it how they want? Interesting opinion.

The DM can say what he wants, but according to the ability as written, the extra attack happens DURING the Attack action and as 'part of it'.

So you can declare the Attack action and, as part of that action, make your first attack the free extra attack from Dread Ambusher.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Ok, so I've had some time to review some things and I am changing my response. What changed my mind was thinking more about what Dread Ambusher is hoping to accomplish: killing a target as quickly as possible. That first strike is the one you want the extra d8 of damage on to increase your chances of killing your target.

So, in general, you would want the first attack to be the additional attack with the d8 bonus damage if it hits. Of course, you might have reasons for not having it be your first attack on your turn, like maybe your first attack takes out a bodyguard and then your "additional" attack with the extra damage is for the main target (you wouldn't want to waste the damage on the bodyguard after all).

Anyway, wording aside that is what changed my mind. Personally, as I said in my first post, making an attack first is a perfectly valid interpretation--- which is all ANYONE here is doing: offering their interpretation. No one here has any authority outside of interpretation when it comes to the rules of the game, so maybe people should stop acting like they do.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

A diferrence without consequence. And frankly, it is kind of odd to say it isn't something when that thing isn't defined in 5E.

There isn't really a "free action" in 5E, but the terminology from prior editions is often utilized to describe situations such as here, where a "thing" is allowed to happen in certain circumstances, especially when it does something that usually requires an action (making an attack is usually an action).

So why do you argue with something that does not even exist. You make up an action type and argue that it is alike something that actually exists... I am quite sure that this knid of argumentation is flawed.
Make one extra attack as part of an action does not specify any kind of order.
But whatever floats your boat.