GM Issues..

[Zoric]

Greetings Enworlders! I've long lurked your forums as a member of groovygamers, but recent developments in a face-to-face group have brought me to break my silence and bring an issue before the collective wisdom of the gamers here on this site. The question I have for you all is this: Can this situation be salvaged?

To give a little context, I've recently become a part of a Mutants and Masterminds campaign that's been running for a little under 5 years now. I was invited by some of the original players who thought new blood would freshen the game. This particular campaign has a bit of notoriety on the M&M forums as a long-running feature in their story hour, if you've ever been to the ATT I'm sure you've seen it. Anyway, to my delight, I found I had joined a tight-knit group of gamers who had been playing together for a long time and were really fun to be around. As usual... there was a caveat.

Simply put, the group has GM issues.

I got an inkling of the problem with an incident prior to my joining the game. Long story short, a PC thought of a creative way to dispatch the villain of the month, one that would have resulted in a casualty-free encounter. All he had to do was tell a nearby NPC to use his powers to nullify the villain. The GM's response was to simply say "No." And leave it at that. No discussion. The fight happened, a PC died and was shortly resurrected via "mysterrrrrrrious means". This was part of a plot thread that set off the rest of the story of that arc. I took this knowledge in stride and played a few sessions.

I've been in about thirteen sessions with this group now. Seeing as this is a monthly game, that's quite a bit. I've experienced some railroading firsthand, moments when the plot goes into pretty heavy "cutscene" mode and the PCs are frozen in place while it happens. All NPCs seem to come with immunity to social interaction skills, nothing but the right set of key words actually seems to do anything to them. Investigations often yield no information whatsoever. Knowledge skills are virtually useless due to their potential to get around certain plot walls. I was actually told not to invest much in skills when creating my first character...

...Speaking of the NPCs, they're becoming increasingly cheap/broken as the game goes on. Most ignore power level limits, and are built on more power points than their PL limit should actually stand for. Most of our fights (which, the ONLY tried and true method of getting anything done is to beat the crap out of something until The Plot shows up) are long, drawn out experiences with seven (yes, seven) PCs beating on a single horridly broken NPC for about an hour. This is mainly due to absurd toughness and defense, but also GM fiats being so horribly abused, social services should be contacted immediately. Myself and another player aware of these issues have taken to seeing this as an arms race, and find our builds becoming increasingly overpowered and.. dare I say it, "munchkined", merely to *put up a fight* in this campaign.

The problem is that the story has a lot of inflexibility to it nowadays. When the campaign started, it was not this way at all. My talks with past players report that this GM was once a lot of fun to play with, he rolled with the punches and came up with creative ideas that the PCs worked with him on to craft a cool story. It was so cool and fun, in fact, that this GM decided to write the adventure into a novelized form, recording what had been done so far...

...but he didn't quite stop at "what had been done." He instead went straight into planning what else was going to happen. Over time the PCs were relegated to the background as pet NPCs gained more prominence.

I've even brought all these issues up to the GM, he and I both have noticed the other players lack of interest in the actual story. Half the players do things that Mr. Welsh > http://theglen.livejournal.com/16735.html would be quite proud of on a session to session basis. I said it had to do with the inflexibility to the plot and the general impotence of the PCs in the face of it.

This GM has expressed a desire to fix things, he'd like to see the players be interested in the game again and actually take an active role in the story. Well, that's what he says at least. The question I'm asking is, as previously stated: Is this possible? Can this game be salvaged? Truly I hope it can. It used to be great, so I hear. We have a great group of people when they're into the game, and the campaign world is one I'd love to be able to take a hand in shaping.

So Enworldites, what should be done, if anything CAN be done, to start this gaming group down the path of recovery?

Thank you for the advice ahead of time!

 

[outsider]

Can it be fixed? Depends how much the GM means what he says. There isn't alot you can do as a player. Perhaps make note of when he makes these mistakes and bring them to his attention(not in a confrontational manner). It's possible he just doesn't recognize when he's doing it. Also, encourage the GM to ask the players what they want to do the next session, and accommodate that desire.

One thing you can do as a player is refuse to allow the pet NPCs to get involved. If one of them insists on going along, just acknowledge how powerful they are, and that you will leave the problem in question for them to solve while you all go do something else.

If the GM doesn't show signs of improvement, talk to the group and see if anybody else would like to GM. Or find another group.

 

[Zoric]

One thing you can do as a player is refuse to allow the pet NPCs to get involved. If one of them insists on going along, just acknowledge how powerful they are, and that you will leave the problem in question for them to solve while you all go do something else.

I've sort of been doing this in a more passive form for a little while, I'm playing a character obsessed with his own survival, thus he does not take place in combat (despite being the 2nd most lethal member of our team) if there is any risk to his person. Anytime I see the inevitable hour+ long combat coming, I book it. Next time we're paired with NPCs, I will suggest taking this course of action, if only to see how fair the plot rails are willing to bend, or even break.

 

[pogre]

I know there are always considerations for another's feelings, but have you considered directing him to your first post? You know him better than us - would this be a profitable opening or would he just be hurt?

The fact he has been good in the past and has expressed a desire to do so again is most definitely a positive sign.

 

[Nagol]

Since the game has been running 5 years, there are a couple of things to check.

1) Has the GM's lifestyle undergone substantial change? Has his free time plummeted, stress level in the rest of his life increased?

If so, then part of the problem may be the GM is finding it difficult to gain the time to think scenarios through, plan for complex player interaction, and come up with aspects that interest individual players.

The symptoms described may be a result of combat being easier and simpler to plan for than creative interaction with the world.

If this is the case then the situation may be very difficult to turn around as the GM has to change/re-prioritse to gain more time for what is a hobby and not family/work obligations.

2) Is the GM suffering burnout?

The symptoms described may be caused by creative burnout. Five years is a long time to run a campaign. Interest and creative juices can dry up.

If this is the case, a hiatus may be enough to perk the GM up. Another member can run a side campaign / limited series and allow the GM to play for a change.

 

[Raven Crowking]

So Enworldites, what should be done, if anything CAN be done, to start this gaming group down the path of recovery?

Quit.

Life is too short for crappy games.

Then run your own game, and do it right. Invite the same players; play on a different day. Invite the other GM, even, if you feel like it.....but don't feel obligated.

Thank you for the advice ahead of time!

You're welcome.



RC

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

The problem is that the story has a lot of inflexibility to it nowadays. When the campaign started, it was not this way at all. My talks with past players report that this GM was once a lot of fun to play with, he rolled with the punches and came up with creative ideas that the PCs worked with him on to craft a cool story. It was so cool and fun, in fact, that this GM decided to write the adventure into a novelized form, recording what had been done so far...

...but he didn't quite stop at "what had been done." He instead went straight into planning what else was going to happen. Over time the PCs were relegated to the background as pet NPCs gained more prominence.

This seems like the heart of the issue. If your GM wants to write a novelization of the game, great. If he wants to write his own novel with the game as starting material but he has now plotted out how the novel will finish, ask him to finish the novel, and not have you play it out so you can enjoy it when he publishes it. In the meantime, start a new campaign that won't be part of his novel.

 

[coyote6]

#include <stdadvice.h>

Either talk to the GM yourself, or talk to the other players, and if they're on the same page as you, talk as a group.

If that doesn't work, or you don't want to talk, bow out of the game.

One other thing...

...Speaking of the NPCs, they're becoming increasingly cheap/broken as the game goes on. Most ignore power level limits, and are built on more power points than their PL limit should actually stand for

FWIW, PL for NPCs is descriptive, not prescriptive. That is, there are no "PL limits" for NPCs -- you give them the powers you want them to have, then calculate their PL. Also, PL and power points are only connected for starting PCs; an NPC can, in theory, be PL3 but cost 213 power points, or be a 75 pt PL14 beast.

Is he giving out hero points when he invokes GM fiat?

 

[ValhallaGH]

Most ignore power level limits, and are built on more power points than their PL limit should actually stand for.

FWIW, PL for NPCs is descriptive, not prescriptive. That is, there are no "PL limits" for NPCs -- you give them the powers you want them to have, then calculate their PL. Also, PL and power points are only connected for starting PCs; an NPC can, in theory, be PL3 but cost 213 power points, or be a 75 pt PL14 beast.

Coyote is absolutely correct on this one.

NPC PL has almost no relation to the mechanics PCs have. Their PL means "this is what PL this guy happens to work out to", not "this is the PL of a player character". The number of power points NPCs have is immaterial, and (if tracked) is wholly independent of their PL: NPCs have enough power points to have whatever they are supposed to have.
Finally, when there are seven PCs beating on one NPC, that NPC has to be a brute if he's not going to go down in round 1. There's a reason Ultron is always Scary when he tangles with the Avengers.

It seems that at least some of the issues you mention are on the player-side, due to misconceptions about "how the game works", and not completely and totally GM issues.
Keeping that in mind, and maybe even mentioning it, when you talk to your GM will probably be helpful in getting the necessary changes made.


Good luck, and I hope it works out well.

 

[Haltherrion]

Quit.

Life is too short for crappy games.

Then run your own game, and do it right. Invite the same players; play on a different day. Invite the other GM, even, if you feel like it.....but don't feel obligated.

I would cut this campaign off rather than try to salvage it. Sounds like the referee needs a break. Best case he can re-group mentally and try again in a new campaign but more likely, he might be better served by being a player.

A once a month game is already difficult for continuity purposes. Establishing that the ref has changed and will now tolerate player input will be especially difficult in that environment- it takes multiple repeated sessions to show he has changed plus he has all that backstory to re-establish from when he was railroading the players which consequently made them not pay a whole lot of attention to the prior lore and story.

Doesn't seem worth the trouble to me.