GM-player Communication vs. Metagaming

[pemerton]

A player should ask "how close?"

What if the player doesn't. Perhaps because s/he doesn't think to. Perhaps because s/he believes (wrongly) that s/he already knows the answer to be "close enough".

Are you really saying that, in those situations, the GM should just let the player suicide his/her PC, rather than check that everyone is on the same page with the contents of the shared fiction of the gameworld?

 

[Loonook]

What if the player doesn't. Perhaps because s/he doesn't think to. Perhaps because s/he believes (wrongly) that s/he already knows the answer to be "close enough".

Are you really saying that, in those situations, the GM should just let the player suicide his/her PC, rather than check that everyone is on the same page with the contents of the shared fiction of the gameworld?

If you don't ask for clarification before making a leap? So you don't know the DC of the jump, how far you go and the repercussions of your actions?

I believe the orcs have a term: "HHey Y'all watch this!!!'

Slainte,

-Loonook.

 

[pemerton]

Well, now I share RogueAgent's puzzle - what is that way of GMing adding to the game?

 

[Loonook]

Well, now I share RogueAgent's puzzle - what is that way of GMing adding to the game?

You allow characters to get away from death whether the cause be a lack of planning, caution, or processing and you develop players who rely directly on you. My players are not reliant on me for anything but the world's hidden corners. They build their families, sow their seeds, reap their whirlwinds... There is an element of caution and reality in bravado made to pay its due. This example is no different than a fighter jumping on a demon's back. Was it my fault that they performed the action? Should I have prompted them over anf over and over again to stop? The player has a brain, tongue, and feet. Those who use them usually are happy.

Ask questions and don't jump in blind is a silly aphorism. Whoever heard to look before you leap?

Slainte,

-Loonook.

 

[Rogue Agent]

My players are not reliant on me--

Factually incorrect. The players are completely reliant on you to provide an accurate and unambiguous description of the game world.

You are advocating that a GM should deliberately fail to fulfill their most basic responsibility at the game table.

I find it deeply ironic that you run a blog called "Good Gaming" when you are not only terrible at it, but attempt to hold up your complete inability to effectively GM as some sort of dubious "virtue".

I think we're done here.

 

[Loonook]

Factually incorrect. The players are completely reliant on you to provide an accurate and unambiguous description of the game world.

You are advocating that a GM should deliberately fail to fulfill their most basic responsibility at the game table.

I find it deeply ironic that you run a blog called "Good Gaming" when you are not only terrible at it, but attempt to hold up your complete inability to effectively GM as some sort of dubious "virtue".

I think we're done here.

Again with the attacks... Yes the DM provides the backdrop... As I stated in that whole "the rest of my post" section. My players ask questions before they decide to make decisions. They have well-drawn-out scenarios... and no hand holding. Stupid decisions when deciding to not wonder about the success ir failure of any given mission or action, deciding to leap before they look, and general rash behavior that they make in the auspice of "fun" are not my fault. Jumping between boats in combat at a 20' leap? Deciding to take their chances at The Emperor at fifth level, generally being unable to, you know, think as their character would on a consequence? Not my concern.

You should try it. Amazingly enough you weed out people who are going to be probkems later... You develop a core of players who know the rules of the game and of play, who ask and think out their next move rather than just deciding to go willy-nilly then complain when they take all that damage from missing a jump.

Death is growth and learning. The burnt hand teaches best, and amazingly enough, after thousands of hours, dozens of players, 3 editions, and enough group-generated source material to keep my homebrews going? I feel pretty alright by my methods. Maybe we have definitions that are opposite but I have not outright attacked you.

Until now.

Let it be known that on this day March 4th 2012 at 11:45 EST... Rogue Agent in a meanie :'(.

Slainte,

-Loonook.

 

[prosfilaes]

If you don't ask for clarification before making a leap? So you don't know the DC of the jump, how far you go and the repercussions of your actions?

I believe the orcs have a term: "HHey Y'all watch this!!!'

There was a Knights of the Dinner Table on this. That's a bad sign.

How far do you want me to go? Do you want me to ask every turn whether the goblin I was attacking has shapeshifted or changed location or died?

 

[prosfilaes]

double post

 

[korjik]

Scenario #1:
Players are about to do something awfully stupid. GM subtly informs them that their plans are taken straight from the litter-box. Players change their plans and from now they expect their GM to save them again if they are about to something dumb. GM is happy that the PCs are alive and well.

Scenario #2:
Players are about to do something awfully stupid. GM takes a moment to ponder is there any in-game solution (not too far-fetched) that could save them. However, players are in a dungeon and there aren't any NPCs to scream from horror after hearing their plan. So the players carry out their plan and a TPK occurs. Players will remember their folly and make a mental note not to repeat it. New characters everyone...

Which one is closer to your gaming style? Or your ideal game?

An in game solution is 'Your tactically experienced fighter thinks your plan is complete crap.'

Players that do abysmally stupid things frequently do them because they are working under misimpressions. The DM should fix them. If the DM dosent fix them, then the TPK will not result in learning any more than the DM fixing the problem will result in the PCs expecting a bailout.

 

[Stormonu]

If the players are about to participate in some action that would cause undue hilarity to ensue, and it's fairly obvious it'd be a Bad Idea, I'll go over the facts just to make sure I didn't miscommunicate something (and that's usually the case of what's happened, that or it's been two weeks since we last played and some detail was forgotten).

I won't tell a player "no" or stop them unless it's a physically impossible action, but if they insist, well, it was their character...