GMed first MHRP session on Sunday

pemerton

Legend
I GMed Marvel Heroic RP for the first time on Sunday. This was for my usual 4e group, less one (overseas on holidays) - we initially thought we would be two short, hence the agreement to play a different system.

Session summary
The characters in play were Iceman, Invisible Woman, War Machine and Wolverine (who seemed perhaps a little overpowered). I started with the Congressional Hearing scene from Civil War, but folded in a bit of Dr Doom action. Two of the heroes were appearing as witnesses - Bobby Drake and James Rhodes - while two others - Sue Storm and Wolvie - were incognito in the gallery.

This played out rather well - the witnesses ran arguments in front of the Committee drawing on their specialties and distinctions (Hopeless Romantic for Bobby; both Semper Fi and A Little Bit of Coexistence for Rhodes), and both received stress (Bobby was embarassed when one Senator ridiculed his argument) and delivered it.

I had indicated as Scene Distinctions Nosy Reporters, Hallowed Halls and Opportunistic Politicians, and the two observers in the gallery played off these: Sue Storm briefed a reporter on the offending Senator, suggesting that there might be more to his arguments in favour of registration than meets the eye, and thus built up a d10 journalistic asset which she was then able to use to help stress out the Committee (having that Senator leave the hearing after receiving a note from his press secretary about penetrating questions).

Meanwhile, Wolvie - who has a Mysterious Past and earns XP by remeeting old allies or old foes - tried to recollect where he had encountered that Senator before, or what he knew about his connections. He also noticed a shadowy (NPC) figure hanging out in the gallery, who started to leave at the same time as the Senator. He built himself a d12 corrupt politician asset before snooping off after the shadowy figure, followed by the invisible Sue Storm.

I had decided that in a one-shot game I needed to go for broke, and so of course the shadowy figure was none other than Dr Doom - whom Wolvie and Sue Storm confronted and defeated (as Doom tried to call down Congressional security upon them - as a complication - but repeatedly rolled low totals and multiple ones), only to discover that it was really just a Doombot (after I spent 2d8 from the Doom Pool to establish that They Were Not Worthy of Doom). As the witnesses turned the tables on the Committee, Wolvie and Sue then tracked down the corrupt Senator and found him taking calls on two phones at once - in English talking to Sue's journalist friend, and in Russian with someone else. Wolvie succeeded in inflicting d12+ emotional stress and so the Senator fainted; and he picked up the phone, could hear that that person at the other end sounded like s/he was flying in an open-cockpit plane, or perhaps driving very fast on a bike or in an open car, and spoke something down the phone in Russian causing d10 mental stress as the listener got very confused about what was going on. The two heroes then skedaddled taking the phones and the Doombot head with them, and rendezvoused with the two witnesses back at Rhodes' hotel room.

This was then the transition scene for the session. Bobby and War Machine recovered some stress, while Wolvie's player spent a point to establish the head and the phones as a Covert resource (War Machine's player didn't have any points to spend for a tech resource, which the group would have preferred). With the resource they were able to establish that the Russian phone had last received a call from the biology wing of the Smithsonian, so they headed off there for a night-time investigation - all suited up, this time.

This was the second action scene. Due to real-life issues of people having to go home we didn't get to finish it entirely satisfactorily.

The heroes came to the Smithsonian and noticed a Power Outage making the whole place dark; and found a loading bay open with some sort of sophisticated-looking shipping container inside it. Bobby tried to break it open by chilling it down to the point where its lock and hinges would be brittle, but in the test against the Doom Pool + Hi Tech Container d10 he lost, and so the container proved resistant, while the intruders in the Smithsonian came to see what was going on.

For these mooks I pulled four NPCs from The Raft mini-module: Armadillo, Chemistro, Constrictor and Vermin. Three of them seemed suitably biological, and I wanted Chemistro to do something special. At the same time, Titanium man showed up, having stepped down his mental stress from d10 to d8 and finally having made it to the party. War Machine flew off to tackle him in what was the more exciting combat of the session - War Machine trying to push Titanium Man more and more out of control (escalating complications, using weapons at first and then, when they were shutdown, Strength and Flight) while Titanium Man tried to trap War Machine in force rings. This conflict lasted through three (maybe four? with actions and reactions it's easy to lose track) cycles.

Back in the Smithsonian Invisble Girl created a Force Cage (d12 asset) and Iceman then used an ice slide (Heroic Prankster, plus Ice Mastery) to slide Vermin into it. Wolverine beat up on Armadillo, but found Armadillo does a good job at resisting physical stress (spend a doom die to ignore it). I was low on doom dice, though, so his first plan was to take the sole dome die into his pool (via Berserker Fury) so that I didn't have it to spend, but in the end (as I was never down to one die) he took out Aramdillo with fear, and then Iceman trapped him in an ice cage which Invisible Woman reinforced with a force cage. Constrictor did a good job of grappling Invisible Woman, but got trapped to in the end.

What I had hoped would be the highlight of the Smithsonian melee was a T-Rex, animated by Chemistro using his alchemy gun, but it was a bit of a disappointment (I wasn't sure on the best resolution for the animation - in the end I used Chemistro's turn in the action sequence to spend d8 from the Doom Pool to animate the T-Rex, who then came in next). It did some stress against Iceman, and it did break up the first Force Cage, freeing Vermin before Iceman retrapped him; and there was a nice moment as Sue Storm used her Science speciality to try and lure the T-Rex into tripping in the Hole in the Ground that Armadillo had left behind when he burrowed in; but in the end it only took Wolvie one reaction and one action to take the T-Rex down.

The session ended with me spending 2d12 from the doom pool to end the scene after Titanium Man finally won in the battle with War Machine - so War Machine went plunging back to earth while Titanium Man escaped to a secret base in Khazakstan. Of course, I didn't do this until Titanium Man won - and the heroes didn't pass the action to Titanium man until they had cleaned up the mooks with their cages, which dragged out a bit even when the end was inevitable. I wasn't 100% sure what the game expected in a situation in which one group of heroes wins their bit (in the Smithsonian) while another hero (War Machine) loses his bit, but it seems that unless I spend the 2d12 the other heroes are probably entitled to somehow have a go at Titanium Man (probably via the phone); and anyway, in a one-shot it seemed to produce a nice finality for an otherwise somewhat rushed finish.

Thoughts
Unsurprisingly, the game played quite differently from D&D. People tended to spend quite a bit of time building their dice pools, which slowed play down, but I imagine over time this would speed up. Two of the players very much got into their distinctions - Iceman and War Machine - and this brought out some of their personality in play, though probably not as much as I would have hoped. Again, more play would probably improve this.

I've already commented that Wolvie seemed perhaps a bit good. The player of Iceman commented that he feld underpowered compared to the others, but in fact he had a lot of impact on the game, including using area attack to make the final ice cage that took out the Smithsonian mooks.

Not enough plot points circulated - in part beacuse my players didn't roll enough 1s, in part because none of use was really using the Limit rules enough (first session and all), in part because they were two hesitant to call d4 Distinctions.

I found the Doom Pool quite hard to manage - it fluctuated quite a bit in size and didn't seem to be reliably building up enough. At the end of the session, after spending my 2d12, the pool was empty.

On the whole the abstract mechanics worked well, as did the non-physical stress and complications. Assets and complications proved pretty effective in play, and reasonably intuitive; though I wasn't 100% clear on the rules for stepping up complications - I let the Invisible Woman used her force field to step up the ice cage that Iceman had created - but while easy enough to grasp in the fiction, I'm not 100% sure if the rules permit this.

We didn't see any stunts, so I can't comment on them; and the Covert resource dice never came into play. But the melee combat seemed very abstract by D&D standards, and (with the exception of the aerial battle between the two flying suits) less interesting than the Congressional hearing. In the future I wuold need to find some way to address this.
 

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Spatula

Explorer
Thanks for taking the time to write this up!

Thoughts
I found the Doom Pool quite hard to manage - it fluctuated quite a bit in size and didn't seem to be reliably building up enough.
You can speed this up if the players aren't rolling ones by having your villains use D4 distinctions, or by invoking their limits. Mooks and minor villains are good candidates for this, since they're going to get steam-rolled by the players anyway.

Personally, I found managing the doom pool to be one of the trickier aspects of running the game.

The other tricky bit for me was coming up with interesting actions to take all of the time! The free-form nature of the game is great for accommodating almost any sort of action, but that's not so helpful if you can't think of anything to do beyond, "I hit/shoot him again."
 

Vyvyan Basterd

Adventurer
You can also build your Doom Pool by having a villain use his action to directly add to it. Titanium Man could trash scenery in public, Chemistro could monlogue about how the heroes are doomed, etc. Build a pool, then add the highest die to the Doom Pool (according to Cam Banks), although I require the villain to still roll the pool dice for opportunities.
 

pemerton

Legend
You can also build your Doom Pool by having a villain use his action to directly add to it.
This is, in effect, how I got my T-Rex into play: Chemistro spent an action to add his Alchemy Gun d8 to the pool, and then I spent that to activate the T-Rex. (But I didn't roll dice in the way you suggest.)

You can speed this up if the players aren't rolling ones by having your villains use D4 distinctions, or by invoking their limits. Mooks and minor villains are good candidates for this, since they're going to get steam-rolled by the players anyway.
I did this a bit (d4 distinctions, not limits) but probably not enough.

The other tricky bit for me was coming up with interesting actions to take all of the time! The free-form nature of the game is great for accommodating almost any sort of action, but that's not so helpful if you can't think of anything to do beyond, "I hit/shoot him again."
This wasn't really a problem in the Congressional Hearing scene. Nor was it an issue in the War Machine/Titanium Man battle - though that was basically a back-and-forth of "I push him further out of control/I encase him in more Force Rings", it had a nice tension to it, and the drama of it was easy to visualise.

For some reason the fight with the mooks was less satisfying - even though the complications, like force cages and freezing them in ice, were kind of fun, it didn't feel very visceral. And Armadillo vs Wolverine certainly suffered a bit from the "I try to claw him again - oh, he's still a lot better than me at what it is he does" syndrome!
 

@pemerton Good lead post and good thread. I didn't see this before. The other suggestions on Doom Pool proliferation by Vyvyan and Spatula are good. I think I'll focus on two areas.

1) I have found that my favored way to dynamically grow and use the Doom Pool is in activating new Scene Distinctions that complicate the players' heroes. They lend great narrative depth to a scene, I can use them to boost my villain pools and players can invoke them at d4 (to get plot points) which inevitably lead to opportunities and Doom Pool growth.

2) Wolverine is indeed a bit OP. For the most part, narrative restrictions are what are meant to constrain the potency of SFX to a general mean level. However, with Wolverine, the big offender is Adamantium Skeleton. Its an extremely powerful SFX triggered on a successful reaction against edged or blunt attacks...which (especially against pulp Wolverine or Weapon X foes) is a vast, vast, vast majority of foes. We have played with Wolverine and Deadpool in the same game. While they played extremely different due to Distinctions and Milestones (and a few deviations in Specialties and power sets/traits), there is a fair stretch of overlap twixt the two (Godlike Stamina, Psychic Resistance, Enhanced Reflexes, Healing Factor, Combat/Covert/Menace/Crime Specialties). The primary difference between the two, with respect to overall power level, is Adamantium Skeleton. Its just a bit too good for the pulp combat you expect Wolverine to run into. Take him out of the scenario where he is fighting hordes of Ninja mooks, Juggernaut (etc) where he cannot leverage Adamantium Skeleton constantly, then things bounce back to relative normalcy I find. It probably just needs a wee bit of a nerf because its not healthy for the game's genre expectations when Wolverine is not regularly fighting hordes of melee mooks and hulking brutes (where Adamantium Skeleton gets unwieldy for the game's balance).

Fearsome is also pretty powerful (but in line) coupled with Menace Master for non-combat, conflict resolution.
 

Sorry, hadn't seen this.

The dice pools take a bit of time to get up to speed. What they are intended to do is add detail to the narrative through 'name it and claim it'. You start off with the dice for your affiliation and for the rest you name them and claim them. So it's "Diving through the burning building (grabs a d4 for the scene distinction) Wolverine lashes out (d10 combat master) with his adamantium claws (d10), punching (d8 - strength) his already webbed down (d10 enemy complication) in the gut." Wushu is definitely one of the inspirations for MHRP.

Wolvie's nasty but there's far more overpowered out there (his most dangerous aspect is the ability to automatically counter-attack). Ice Man I wouldn't give to a newbie as the first thing Ice Man should be doing in any scene expected to last a few rounds is powering up by dropping the temperature to freezing, taking advantage of his Ice Mastery and the low doom pool you start with in the early game to get either a stepped up d8 or even stepped up d10 as his effect die. (Just the way the "real" Ice Man does) Adding a d10 or especially a d12 to every subsequent dice pool in the scene (or possibly until the next transition scene) makes things go squash, especially if his next action is a large area of effect attack.

Wolvie took the T-rex down in one hit? Ouch! That must have been one hell of a hit! Wolvie's best dice is a d10 (I don't like d12 heroes for this reason) which means that he must have beaten the Rex by 10? Or did the Rex break its own teeth on Wolvie, giving it a d12 stress to start with? Yes, I recently one-shotted Loki with Tony Stark in a death or glory move, but it cost me six plot points to do it (which Tony Stark only had at the cost of blowing up his armour - seriously, Tony's armour is designed to be destroyed in game).

And no, you can't step up complications in the rules.

But yes, it's abstract unless you're using the name it and claim it approach to actions, or going narratively detailed anyway. And normally I find that absurdly big doom pools are a problem :)
 

pemerton

Legend
Wolvie took the T-rex down in one hit?
Two hits.

It's a while ago now, but looking at the T-Rex's stats (3 d8s in the solo category) I think that he will have done one d10 hit on a successful action, and another on a successful reaction (using Adamantium Skeleton) and for one of those he spent a point to deliver a second effect die. Thereby knocking out the 3 d8 from the T-Rex's solo pool.

The dice pools take a bit of time to get up to speed. What they are intended to do is add detail to the narrative through 'name it and claim it'.
This part was fine. The Congressional hearing went well, and so did the fight between War Machine and Titanium Man.

It was the others vs second-stringers that was a bit underwhelming in play. Not hopeless, by any means, but a bit of a "filler episode" feel to it.
 

WayneLigon

Adventurer
I was quite pleased with my experience playing this game. We had a small group with Captain America, Quasar, a mutant I cannot remember, and Nightcrawler. All in all, I was pretty impressed with the way things would flow back and forth between the players and GM as far as forming dice pools, how damage was done, etc.

We never went much further with it because of the gimped character creation system, and because it would have broken the bank to get the supplements needed for a large array of characters. I know they planned it that way, but hey, that's why the game doesn't exist anymore.
 

Spatula

Explorer
I was quite pleased with my experience playing this game. We had a small group with Captain America, Quasar, a mutant I cannot remember, and Nightcrawler. All in all, I was pretty impressed with the way things would flow back and forth between the players and GM as far as forming dice pools, how damage was done, etc.

We never went much further with it because of the gimped character creation system, and because it would have broken the bank to get the supplements needed for a large array of characters. I know they planned it that way, but hey, that's why the game doesn't exist anymore.
The game doesn't exist anymore because Marvel pulled the license. Probably because of unrealistic sales expectations, but no one is allowed to explicitly say. Marvel actually has a bit of history doing that - they did the same to the previous Marvel superhero RPG. From what I've seen, the game was selling quite well - it was usually at the top or in the top 10 at DriveThruRPG.net.

There were only 5 supplements published while the license was active, and most of those were targeted at specific character groups. So if one was not interested in, say, Young Avengers & the Runaways, one would presumably not buy that book. The idea that MHR was going to break anyone's bank when they were selling the main book for $20 is a little laughable.

Finally, the character creation system was not gimped. What it was not was a mechanical mini-game that many have come to expect from RPGs. Instead it was: create the character that you want to play. It has that in common with other modern RPGs that focus on narrative play, such as FATE.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
Finally, the character creation system was not gimped. What it was not was a mechanical mini-game that many have come to expect from RPGs. Instead it was: create the character that you want to play. It has that in common with other modern RPGs that focus on narrative play, such as FATE.

Actually, character creation in many FATE variants is a minigame - There is the standard "skill buying" phase, and then a segment you work with the whole group to write a set of iconic narratives that display your character's traits.

Marvel, unfortunately, has this weird idea that players would be satisfied with playing the signature characters of the Marvel Universe, rather than their own creations. So the creation system was given notably short shrift - I would call it "gimped", in that it amounted to, "look at our published characters, and hack something together". If it were a piece of software, you'd say that character creation was not really a supported feature of the system. You can do it, but they're not going to help you.

I wish the terms of the license were such that they could publish the mechanical system, with the addition of much more guidance on character generation, and just leave out Marvel's specifics.
 

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