GMs - Do you get bored when you're a player?

[Thomas Shey]

This is more about perspectives and playstyles than blanket truths about RPGs though. After some discussion with you, I see you have a pretty singular minded approach that is heavily based around combat for what RPG should be. I dont share that, so as a GM I might not know to say such things to you. Only through trial and error could I learn as GM what caveats I need to offer. On the flip side, knowing that about your playstyle, it would be prudent to voice it during session zero.

Do you really think its just about combat with them? My read is its more about function (that is to say the utility of the role they're playing being visible). That can be very combat oriented for reasons I reference above, but it can be entirely non-combat oriented and either very visible or almost nonexistent. Note his second example there is primarily about non-combat functions (the CoC character) and his objection is that they simply seemed irrelevant.

You can argue that's a focus away from roleplaying, but I don't know I'd call it about combat per se.

 

[payn]

Do you really think its just about combat with them? My read is its more about function (that is to say the utility of the role they're playing being visible). That can be very combat oriented for reasons I reference above, but it can be entirely non-combat oriented and either very visible or almost nonexistent. Note his second example there is primarily about non-combat functions (the CoC character) and his objection is that they simply seemed irrelevant.

You can argue that's a focus away from roleplaying, but I don't know I'd call it about combat per se.

I do. You'll notice that the Call of Cthulhu game was actually pulp that is combat driven. Yes, out of combat the characters function didn't work either, but they were especially worthless in combat. Which brought up the "I should just play fighter/tanks from now on".

Further in Traveller there are no classes like D&D. It does not have combat roles. Complaining about not being able to heal in combat being boring is putting a primary focus on the combat.

These discussions might veer from combat, but they always return to it as the ultimate arbiter of boring player issue for the OP. Im not saying the OP doesnt like the game outside of combat, but it seems to be the primary source of enjoyment when it comes to character function for them.

 

[Retreater]

Further in Traveller there are no classes like D&D. It does not have combat roles. Complaining about not being able to heal in combat being boring is putting a primary focus on the combat.

But imagine being able to contribute to combat AND outside of combat. Imagine having a character able to hit and do damage that isn't negated by Damage Reduction (which is the problem I kept having in Numenera).
So there are games where someone has a blaster rifle and a good percentage chance to hit. They know what they can do to affect the game. Then you have a character who has to constantly "mother-may-I" to find effectiveness. "Can I hack the lights to turn off all but the emergency illumination, giving the enemies a miss chance?" And you have to discover stuff like that every round. And more than likely, it's going to hurt your group as much as it's going to hurt the enemies.
And eventually, you want to be playing with the game rules, not trying to circumvent them.

 

[payn]

But imagine being able to contribute to combat AND outside of combat. Imagine having a character able to hit and do damage that isn't negated by Damage Reduction (which is the problem I kept having in Numenera).
So there are games where someone has a blaster rifle and a good percentage chance to hit. They know what they can do to affect the game. Then you have a character who has to constantly "mother-may-I" to find effectiveness. "Can I hack the lights to turn off all but the emergency illumination, giving the enemies a miss chance?" And you have to discover stuff like that every round. And more than likely, it's going to hurt your group as much as it's going to hurt the enemies.
And eventually, you want to be playing with the game rules, not trying to circumvent them.

Interesting description playing with them instead of against them. It’s really about intention for me. I have about 1/3 the combats in Traveller that I have in D&D and that drops to 1/10 in CoC.

Traveller and CoC for me are about problem solving with a characters skill set. It isn’t about being useful outside and inside combat, it’s combat simply being another state of just the game. They are the same, so yes, finding interesting things to do with your skills in combat is expected.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Though that's about D&D proper; I've played or run 13th Age, PF2e and Shadow of the Demon Lord and I don't think that at least entirely applies to any of them (outside of things that I think are probably a personal pathology in my case).

Yeah, I don’t think it’s an inherent property of combat in RPGs so much as it seems to be about a specific system.

I ran a game of Mothership last night that wound up having a combat, and I don’t think anyone found the combat boring. And it’s not like Mothership has tons of rules for combat or special moves and feats and the like. It worked and was engaging because it was fast paced, had meaningful stakes, very high risk, and was brief. It went into the third round before ending, taking a total of about 10 to 15 minutes with four players

Plenty of other systems, at varying level of complexity, offer engaging combat. With 5e (and similar systems) it seems designed based on tradition more than anything else, and that’s not necessarily going to yield the best results. Now, a skilled/experienced GM can use the base system and get it to perform better… but I think that can be a tough task.

 

[pemerton]

I'd say that depends heavily on the game system. Plenty of game systems get, shall we say, pretty schematic as you get away from the combat system, and even more GMs have a tendency to elide the mechanics once you get away from there.

Well, all I can really do in response to this is reiterate that "I don't see any very strong overlap between combat and the mechanical parts of the game."

The post you replied to provided examples from Torchbearer 2e. But I could make the same point with reference to Burning Wheel, or Classic Traveller, or Prince Valiant, or Marvel Heroic/Cortex+ Heroic, or 4e D&D - these are the RPGs I've played the most over the past 15 years - or even with reference to Rolemaster, which is the RPG I played the most for the 20 years before that.

If I provided illustrations of 4e play combat would of course figure more prominently as an element of play - to quote (or perhaps paraphrase) @Campbell, the protagonists of 4e D&D are violently capable individuals - but it wouldn't exhaust the role of mechanics, given the 4e uses skill challenges to resolve non-combat situations with meaningful stakes.

I'm using the term her in the pure-roleplaying context, i.e. interacting with other PCs and NPCs in a context where the mechanics are not going to be (and really would have no reason to be) engaged because you aren't aiming for any particular outcome.

My RPGing features relatively little low- or no-stakes social interaction, for the same sort of reason that it features relatively little low- or no-stakes description of the weather, the trees the PCs are walking past, etc.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Well, all I can really do in response to this is reiterate that "I don't see any very strong overlap between combat and the mechanical parts of the game."

Then the best I can say is our experiences differ. The number of games I have played that got the same love mechanically as combat in other areas is slim. This doesn't mean such things don't exist, but if they do I've played in very few of them.

The post you replied to provided examples from Torchbearer 2e. But I could make the same point with reference to Burning Wheel, or Classic Traveller, or Prince Valiant, or Marvel Heroic/Cortex+ Heroic, or 4e D&D - these are the RPGs I've played the most over the past 15 years - or even with reference to Rolemaster, which is the RPG I played the most for the 20 years before that.

I actually think D&D 4e very much fits what I'm talking about. While skill challenges were a decent mechanic, there was much less to it than the extended combat elements of the game. In terms of player-facing things, I'd say it about Traveller, too, at least in regard to player-facing systems.

My RPGing features relatively little low- or no-stakes social interaction, for the same sort of reason that it features relatively little low- or no-stakes description of the weather, the trees the PCs are walking past, etc.

O see quite a bit of the latter in games, often as lead-ins to later events where it matters, but still where there's unlikely to be any mechanical involvement at the time

 

[Mort]

New to the thread, so have no idea what twists and turns it's taken.

But as to the OP:

As near forever DM, I LOVE getting to "just" play. As a matter of fact, I love taking the low IQ muscle, so I can just have fun being in the group and hit stuff when appropriate as opposed to think too hard!