Gnome haters? It's Lockwood's fault!

[Klaus]

Jester then? (see my edited previous post)

The difference between a trickster and an jester is mainly the lack of a stage.

As for Keeper of Lore, "gnome" comes from Greek root "gnosis", which means "knowledge". I find it a perfect fit. Of course, YMMV.

 

[Zander]

The difference between a trickster and an jester is mainly the lack of a stage.

Sort of. A trickster does what he does for his own amusement and that of his fellows but a jester does it to entertain an audience. Either way, both tropes should be covered by the same class in D&D. As I said, I don't have my Dragon Compendium to hand so I can't check if the class therein covers both aspects.

As for Keeper of Lore, "gnome" comes from Greek root "gnosis", which means "knowledge". I find it a perfect fit. Of course, YMMV.

You're quite right about the etymology but the Greeks didn't bequeath us a gnome-like mythical creature similar to our understanding of gnomes but with the keeper of lore portfolio as well.

The Paracelsian gnome (16th c AD) is more like a D&D/Tolkien dwarf, i.e. a creature of the earth and hoarder of treasure.

 

[Dragonhelm]

Dragonlance started it.

Mystara and the Realms picked it up and ran with it, then it sort of became the mainstream version of gnomes. Odd, that.

Spelljammer also used tinker gnomes quite heavily.

 

[Umbran]

Perhaps but bard implies many other things such as musician, story-teller, keeper of lore and traveller that don't particularly belong to gnomes. The iconic bard in the 3.5 PHB is portrayed primarily as an entertainer, not a trickster.

As noted about the social skills - a trickster needs to tell stories. Your typical trickster is also a lorekeeper - tricks generally rely on the target being more ignorant than the trickster. The only issue is the music, and I note that it isn't really music, but Perform skills that matter.

 

[Ariddrake]

I'm not a big Eberron fan (just because I have enough settings I like) but I read the above articles on their Gnomes and thats how I'm going to portray them. It fits them very well and makes alot of sense.

 

[Zander]

As noted about the social skills - a trickster needs to tell stories.

Not necessarily. A mud-filled pit in the middle of a path covered by an illusion is a trick that requires no tale. Even the reason for going down the path can be a trick without a story.

...tricks generally rely on the target being more ignorant than the trickster.

True. You generally require greater knowledge to trick someone.

Your typical trickster is also a lorekeeper -

False. Having knowledge doesn't mean you have an understanding of lore, the latter being a particular kind of the former. Knowing that a pie doesn't really contain halfling flesh doesn't mean you know about the legend of the lost sword of the Red Knight of Three Dragon Island.

The only issue is the music, and I note that it isn't really music, but Perform skills that matter.

Unfortunately, for better or worse, the D&D bard is associated not with performing in general but music in particular. The rules may have bards as performers and not musicians but the vast majority of players that I have met over the years think of bards as players of lutes etc. If there were some way to break this link, perhaps gnome bards would make a bit more sense but I fear that the 'bard = musician' archetype is too deeply entrenched.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I think part of the problem with people arguing about tricksters is that half of the folks aren't factoring in the mythological reasoning for tricksters: They were teachers, not just ADD jerks. I don't think it's inappropriate to require the gnome trickster (and can I just say, I'm sorry the old PrC from the Dragon Annual didn't make it into the core rules ever?) to have more on their mind than just "ha ha, fooled you."

And look up the Perform skill in the PHB. Bards are not linked to music in 3E.

 

[frankthedm]

I think part of the problem with people arguing about tricksters is that half of the folks aren't factoring in the mythological reasoning for tricksters: They were teachers, not just ADD jerks. I don't think it's inappropriate to require the gnome trickster (and can I just say, I'm sorry the old PrC from the Dragon Annual didn't make it into the core rules ever?) to have more on their mind than just "ha ha, fooled you."

And look up the Perform skill in the PHB. Bards are not linked to music in 3E.

Ahem...

Bardic Music
Once per day per bard level, a bard can use his song or poetics to produce magical effects on those around him (usually including himself, if desired). While these abilities fall under the category of bardic music and the descriptions discuss singing or playing instruments, they can all be activated by reciting poetry, chanting, singing lyrical songs, singing melodies, whistling, playing an instrument, or playing an instrument in combination with some spoken performance. Each ability requires both a minimum bard level and a minimum number of ranks in the Perform skill to qualify; if a bard does not have the required number of ranks in at least one Perform skill, he does not gain the bardic music ability until he acquires the needed ranks.

Starting a bardic music effect is a standard action. Some bardic music abilities require concentration, which means the bard must take a standard action each round to maintain the ability. Even while using bardic music that doesn’t require concentration, a bard cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell completion (such as scrolls), spell trigger (such as wands), or command word. Just as for casting a spell with a verbal component, a deaf bard has a 20% chance to fail when attempting to use bardic music. If he fails, the attempt still counts against his daily limit.

 

[Klaus]

Like I said upthread:

"Musician? Only because the ability is called Bardic Music. It can be perfectly accomplished by Perform (oratory), Perform (stand-up comedy) or Perform (Whose Line Is It Anyway?). A gnome bard can Inspire Courage by telling 'yo momma' jokes about the enemy, bolstering his allies."

 

[Nomad4life]

The only time I ever use gnomes in my games are in “silly” campaigns. It’s not that I “hate” gnomes or anything... It’s just that I can’t seem to take them seriously.

Part of my problem is that I’ve got no sense of what an archetypical gnome is supposed to “be” exactly. The depictions of them in the various books don’t help; Are they tricksters? Tinkerers? Craftsmen? Shadowrun rejects? Trendy techno band drop-outs? I just... Don’t have a lot of pop culture icons or literary staples to form a solid point of reference with. Heck, “gnome” is the only race that I have to close my eyes and concentrate in order to form a visual in my mind, and that visual is usually pretty darn goofy.

Honestly, if gnomes had been accidentally left out of 3.5, I would never have noticed.

EDIT: It might be interesting if someone were to set up some kind of “Do you use gnomes in your campaigns?” poll.