Gnomes: Monster or PC (Poll)

[racoffin]

Gnomes have never been a popular PC race. I've seen more Tieflings or Drow than Gnomes or half-orcs. I've played D&D for over 20yrs and Gnomes are by far the rarest PC race played. Since Tieflings became available in 2e they've seen a larger following and I'm OK with that (never played one myself though).

There is something that your OP is missing: Gnomes are not exclusively monsters. Adding Warforged (Eberron), Drow (everyone), or Minotaurs (Dragonlance) allows players to choose from a campaign specific list while providing less support to the less popular races. Page space is a limited resource. When the editors are faced with cutting material (as all editors are) they cut the material that is least likely to be used.

Gnome rage exists only because it provides more ammunition to H4ters. Few people play them but everyone complains. I'm running a 4e campaign now and people said, "so they got rid of gnomes eh?" Nope. Open up the MM and they're in the back, you can play one if you like. "Naw, I'll play a half-elf instead." What about you? "Human." Hmm...

I'm not so sure about the whole ammunition for "H4aters". I'm more or less disinterested in the whole edition war bit, so that doesn't affect my feelings or vote on the issue. I've seen in 30+ years of gaming more than a few half-orcs and gnomes. As more optional races have become availiable, I've seen people dabble with them, but not to the levels I've seen/heard about on boards such as these.

I imagine that everyone has their own list of likes and dislikes. For every person that dislikes a race or class, there is another who enjoys it. Just seems that there is room for everyone to have their idea of fun instead of this argument that seems to go on with each included/removed race, class, etc.

 

[A Passing Maniac]

In general, I let my players use whatever race they want, which works out well for the games I have recently been running in Planescape and a Spelljammer-inspired setting. If a race doesn't exist, I help them build it; if it does exist but they don't care for it, I help them adapt it. I've currently got nymphs, a mind flayer, and a tauric centipede in my campaigns, for example.

Allowing a player to use a race that is playable out of the Monster Manual and was previously a PHB race is trivial compared to helping a (very bizarre) player craft a unique half-valkyrie half-frost giant race.

And, for the record, in my time I've seen far more people play gnomes than play elves or dwarves.

 

[the Jester]

Your poll doesn't have my answer, which is that gnomes are, always have been and always will be viable as both pcs and monsters.

Hell, the core 4e rules have gnome pc rules in the MM.

I'm not sure I even understand what you're polling. The "screw WotC" line makes it sound very hostile, kind of like, "If WotC did something you hate, even if they didn't actually do it, would you still hate it that they did?"

 

[Kaodi]

Yeah, I have to go with SSquirrel. Before that infamous quote, I would of said either yes or ambivalent. It is too funny to be invalidated by them becoming a PC Race every again, hehehe...

 

[Gentlegamer]

All non-humans are monsters.

Whether a non-human character can be a player character is up to the DM and the participants of the game.

 

[AtomicPope]

I've seen in 30+ years of gaming more than a few half-orcs and gnomes.

OMG! 30+ years of gaming

That's a long time man. Not to thread jack but did you start as a kid? I ask that because there is an "anti-kid" element in many replies. I started as a kid over 20yrs ago and played with adults and teens.

 

[racoffin]

OMG! 30+ years of gaming

That's a long time man. Not to thread jack but did you start as a kid? I ask that because there is an "anti-kid" element in many replies. I started as a kid over 20yrs ago and played with adults and teens.

I started in 77 or 78, which put me at 9 to 10 years old at the time. Most of the time I played, at least for the first 10-15 years, I was just about the youngest person at the table. I don't mind the kids, myself, for just that reason.

 

[AtomicPope]

I started in 77 or 78, which put me at 9 to 10 years old at the time. Most of the time I played, at least for the first 10-15 years, I was just about the youngest person at the table. I don't mind the kids, myself, for just that reason.

Ditto. I was the youngest until I was out of highschool.

I have 3 kids (13,14,14) in my 4e game now with plenty of adults. It's good for the RPG community and makes for interesting games. Kids get so excited. The energy level is so high when they're teetering on success or failure. Then explode into cheers when they triumph. Awesome.

 

[Nifft]

All non-humans are monsters.

(Also, most humans.)

Cheers, -- N

 

[Vocenoctum]

Gnomes have never been a popular PC race. I've seen more Tieflings or Drow than Gnomes or half-orcs. I've played D&D for over 20yrs and Gnomes are by far the rarest PC race played. Since Tieflings became available in 2e they've seen a larger following and I'm OK with that (never played one myself though).

In some groups, I've seen more drow than humans. All of these discussions are of course anecdotal, since when it comes up others refute my claim that hardly anyone plays dwarves. (A race so unpopular in Shadowrun, they had to give them bonuses without penalties to offset it...)

I've had lots of gnomes, and I've seen a lot more. (Heck, they're all over WoW.)

There is something that your OP is missing: Gnomes are not exclusively monsters. Adding Warforged (Eberron), Drow (everyone), or Minotaurs (Dragonlance) allows players to choose from a campaign specific list while providing less support to the less popular races. Page space is a limited resource. When the editors are faced with cutting material (as all editors are) they cut the material that is least likely to be used.

Gnomes are not in the PHB, which is the book I have. The fact that they're somewhere else doesn't mean I have the stats for one handy when I'm creating. That aside, the Forest Gnome is not the gnome I liked anyway, so the MM entry is doubly useless for me.

It's obvious that they only have so much room for stuff. The fact they bumped gnomes, while adding new races (tieflings? eh, Dragonborn? wierd.) tends to make it more of a choice than simply "we ran out of room" would lead one to believe.

Gnome rage exists only because it provides more ammunition to H4ters. Few people play them but everyone complains. I'm running a 4e campaign now and people said, "so they got rid of gnomes eh?" Nope. Open up the MM and they're in the back, you can play one if you like. "Naw, I'll play a half-elf instead." What about you? "Human." Hmm...

I never understood the gnome-hate myself. I can understand that some folks don't like them, and don't use them in a campaign, but to complain so much, and to delight in their removal from the book, it's just odd. You see it in WoW also, where the Horde players always make the eating gnome jokes.

It's just bewildering to me.

Aside from that, two points;
1) I really assumed they would post the gnome online as a web supplement as a sort of "hey, gnome fans, here ya go". But apparently it's not a priority.
2) I overestimated the race write-ups in general. When they talked them up, and talked about how important race would be over 30 levels, I knew there wouldn't be that much detail in the MM.
Simply point, I don't think there's that much detail in the PHB either...