Goblin Picador

[small pumpkin man]

Well, excepting grapple (ugh) and to a lesser extent bull rush (how far do I move him?), these were all very simple - opposed attack rolls if you're going after a weapon (disarm, sunder), opposed ability check if you're trying to move the target (trip, overrun, bull rush). Grapple is largely a mess. Here's hoping the 4e version finally gives us some simple wrestling rules without making it mostly useless (I'm looking at you, SW SAGA). And it looks as if feinting has been sort-of absorbed into the rogue's at-will attack powers, which don't target AC directly as I recall.

Oh, I'm not saying things like disarm or overrun were difficult to use in play, they weren't. I'm saying that because they all use different rules, if someone wants to do something different, because there isn't a universal rule, it becomes more difficult.

The example given was kicking a table out from under someone, now it's not that you couldn't figure out how to model that in 3.x, it's that because there are 3 or four completely different ways to do it (opposed stat check, ref save, opposed attack roll...) making rules like that up on the fly becomes annoying enough that many groups don't do it. The groups that still do, obviously will get little to no benefit from 4e's standardization into "make stat attack vs defense".

But judging by trip, 4e resolved the issue by simply removing these actions as general combat maneuvers. If you don't have the power, you can't do them, unless perhaps there's rules for performing martial exploits that you don't actually have and that may not even be a part of your class (and if so, why not rules for using arcane, divine, etc. powers "untrained"?). So I'm not sure I'd label that as fixing the problem - anyone can simplify things by axing the troublesome parts.

Actually, currently I'm assuming most martial encounter and at will powers will work like the 3.x feats, with the exception of where in 3.x, it allowed you to do it without provoking an AoO (and gave you a bonus in 3.5), in 4e, you get to do damage as well as applly the effect.

So, while there's going to be a trip power, I'd expect it to do damage as well as make the target prone, just like Iron tide is both a bull rush and does damage on top of that, which means you can just let players use their action to make a str attack vs fort to knock people over until they get up without it being overpowered, or even needing it to be written up in the rules.

 

[Spatula]

Actually, currently I'm assuming most martial encounter and at will powers will work like the 3.x feats, with the exception of where in 3.x, it allowed you to do it without provoking an AoO (and gave you a bonus in 3.5), in 4e, you get to do damage as well as applly the effect.

So, while there's going to be a trip power, I'd expect it to do damage as well as make the target prone, just like Iron tide is both a bull rush and does damage on top of that, which means you can just let players use their action to make a str attack vs fort to knock people over until they get up without it being overpowered, or even needing it to be written up in the rules.

We shall see! In any case, the lack of a rule, combined with the ability of some classes to perform the feat in question, will cause many DMs to conclude that other PCs cannot do it. "You want to trip him? But you don't have the trip power." That's the worst of both worlds IMO. If you don't need the specific power to try it, or if you can attempt Exploits "untrained," then say so in the rules. "If you want to knock an opponent prone, you must first be adjacent to it. Make a STR check vs the target's Fort or Ref defense, whichever is higher. Doing so provokes an Opportunity Attack from the target." - done!