Goblins riding Gray Wolves

[Magus Coeruleus]

Per RAW, no go because mounts have to be larger than riders AND at least size large. Any ideas why? I'd like to have Goblin Wolfriders riding Gray Wolves (as opposed to the much larger and tougher Dire Wolves). What would allowing that break, you think?

Also, since you only get one set of actions per rider-mount pair, if you have a mount that doesn't grant the rider special abilities or benefits, what's the point if the mount is both faster and has a better attack that its rider? Just the fact that it can be deployed more intelligently, perhaps? The occasional rider may have a minor action that's valuable, but probably not a major factor. I wouldn't want goblin riders to seem pointless.

 

[Zurai]

I'm not aware of any power/ability/whathaveyou that allowing Small creatures to ride Medium mounts would break. Go for it.

Though I'd be tempted to just model the wolfriders as a single monster.

 

[Grazzt]

I'm not aware of any power/ability/whathaveyou that allowing Small creatures to ride Medium mounts would break. Go for it.

Though I'd be tempted to just model the wolfriders as a single monster.

Yep. I don't think it would be damaging to the rules. Try it out and see what happens.

And I agree with Zur-, model the wolf riders as a single monster. Give the gray wolf an additional power that kicks in when mounted (model it after the other mounts in the MM: horses, griffons, etc). Try it out and see how it works.

 

[eleran]

I have introduced goblins riding a large version of shadowhunter bats in my new 4e campaign. The PCs have only interacted once with them so far, but are headed toward their lair. Should be interesting.

 

[Novem5er]

Before 4e was released, I guessed at my own monster build: I created goblins riding Medium sized toads. I basically made them 1 creatures, with extra hitpoints, a jump maneuver, and a sticky tongue.

Now that the DMG is out, I'll have to go back and use the rules to create them officially.

I say go for it with the Goblins and Grey Wolves!

 

[Klaus]

Goblin Wolfrider could be a Template that adds the wolf's speed and HP to the goblin's. You get an additional Attack (Bite) and the special ability that lets the goblin and wolf attack together. If the Wolfrider gets Bloodied, the Goblin goes unconscious and the Wolf enters a frenzy, biting and mauling.

 

[Vempyre]

Also, since you only get one set of actions per rider-mount pair,

That's a PC only rule.

For NPC it's :

1) if you are counting the mount's XP in the encounter total, mount and rider each get their own set of actions.

2) if you are not counting the mount's xp (because it's so low lvl that it's irrelevant or because it has no attacks or special powers), give the rider/mount pair one set of actions.

 

[Rith the Wanderer]

Yeah that's definitely something I'm house ruling. Halfling war dogs are just awesome and I really don't see what the impact of a medium mount would be to the rules. Although I guess maybe because halflings are bigger now it does stretch the imagination a little, they'll have to be really big dogs.

 

[Magus Coeruleus]

That's a PC only rule.

For NPC it's :

1) if you are counting the mount's XP in the encounter total, mount and rider each get their own set of actions.

2) if you are not counting the mount's xp (because it's so low lvl that it's irrelevant or because it has no attacks or special powers), give the rider/mount pair one set of actions.

You're right! Good point. Sadly, it's not clear from the plain text; you have to see the inset box to find the rule about combined actions and infer that that's what happens if you don't count XP for the mount.

Main thing I was imagining as a reason to deny med size mounts for small riders is better mobility, i.e. fitting into smaller spaces, being a smaller target for area attacks, etc. but none of it seems so huge to be a concern. That's why I'd like to know if they had a balance reason behind that rule.

Modeling them as a one creature sounds pretty interesting. I'll have to consider that. If anyone wants to post an idea of stats for such a goblin wolfrider entity that would be neat. I'd probably go with separate creatures but I'd like to see ideas.

One other question: when you have a rider and mount taking actions separately, does the rider still expend his move action as part of the mount's movement? In 3e, move actions were used for a lot more, so you could imagine doing other actions during the mount's move, but now most of that would be minor actions and I wonder if you should need to use your move action to move along with your mount. What do you folks think?

Thanks.

 

[Rith the Wanderer]

Yeah I think your stuck with the wasted move action.