D&D General Godless Settings

[ColinChapman]

I'm curious, which settings, whether official (such as Dark Sun with its elemental clerics) or unofficial, are godless, in a literal sense? Either because divinities never existed, or they died/were killed, or left their creation, or were banished, or what have you. Note, a lack of actual deities does not necessarily mean a lack of faiths or religions.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

When Eberron officially became part of the 5e multiverse, the gods of Forgotten Realms became factually existent.

But this then raises the question. Yes there are powerful Astral creatures. But are they worthy of "worship"? Do these creatures even want to be "worshiped"? Perhaps some or most dont. It is possible to remain nontheistic despite factual existence. The Greekesque Theros setting explores this via the Iconoclast. It is the Buddhist approach as well, with the understanding that if gods exist, then they lack personal enlightenment. The Planescape and Sigil setting has room to explore this philosophical question too.

With 4e and 5e, the Eladrin relocated from the Astral to the Feywild to function as Fey beings. Probably, the Norse nature beings should as well, specifically inhabiting the skies of the Feywild and looking down at the Humans below in the Material Plane that the Plane overlaps. The Norse world tree Yggdrasil remains canon in 5e 2024. In Norse cultures, this tree has three roots. One leads to the region of the dead in the underearth comparable to D&D Shadowfell, plausibly one root leads to the Feywild sky above, and the third root leads to the realm of the þursar, a kind of Giant, possibly in the Ethereal Plane. These are shamanic concepts of nature-oriented animistic cultures.

The overall point is, in D&D powerful creatures exist. But it is human opinion that decides if these should get worshiped or not. Many cultures lack the concept of "worship", which assumes the cultural structure of a lord/servant relationship.

That's how Buddhism works in theory, in real world practice it's far more theistic then it gets credit for, partly because it & its followers peacefully coexist and integrates with indigenous religions that are theistic. It's how you get Buddhist Monks taking care of Shinto Kami Shrines and Hindu Temples. There is a name for this Buddhist approach to indigenous religions, but I forget what it's called.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

I liked the conceit in the 3e Manual of the Planes that each setting had its own cosmology, but were connected via the Shadow Plane. That lets the cosmology serve the needs of the setting, but still opens the door for cross-setting travel.

Honestly still the best way that it's been done. Eberron's whole take on deities doesn't work if you've got the bozos from Toril's outer planes blundering around in the same reality, and the less said about WoTC deciding to equate Paladine/Takhisis and Bahamut/Tiamat the better.

 

[Ath'kethin]

The Al-Qadim setting back in 2nd Edition had a bunch of gods that people worshipped, but those gods were never presented as big monster statblocks, given alignments, or otherwise tied to the typical tropes of D&D settings. Much like Eberron, they were real for their followers but presented in such a manner as the most important thing was their faith. It's among the reasons Al-Qadim was always a poor fit with the Forgotten Realms and the broader D&D multiverse, just like Eberron 20 years later.

 

[Theory of Games]

Ravenloft may be godless. The gods that arose in that setting (Ezra, Hala, maybe the Lawgiver/Bane) might actually just be products of the Mists, and the Mists seem to act as a wall between the gods of other settings and their worshipers.

At least as far as AD&D1e works, Ravenloft would fall under the influence of the gods, or clerics and paladins would be powerless there.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

At least as far as AD&D1e works, Ravenloft would fall under the influence of the gods, or clerics and paladins would be powerless there.

In pre-3E, clerics were actually getting their powers from the Dark Powers, no matter the actual god they were worshipping. There was a sort of a "divine block" going on.

 

[Theory of Games]

In pre-3E, clerics were actually getting their powers from the Dark Powers, no matter the actual god they were worshipping. There was a sort of a "divine block" going on.

That's not how the original Ravenloft module worked, but things changed with 2e.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

That's not how the original Ravenloft module worked, but things changed with 2e.

The original Ravenloft isn't set in the campaign setting, not really, its best to see it as "proto-Ravenloft". In fact, it's not even clear that is in a separate plane of existence rather than an inaccessible part of the normal world.

Ravenloft II: Gryphon Hill is not even in continuity with the first novel, let alone the later setting.

 

[SteveC]

The first edition of the 7th Sea game had a talent you could buy called "True Faith." It was up to the GM if it actually did anything or not. I always thought that was an interesting approach.

 

[M.L. Martin]

In pre-3E, clerics were actually getting their powers from the Dark Powers, no matter the actual god they were worshipping. There was a sort of a "divine block" going on.

It was ambiguous; the writeup for Alfred Timothy in the Black Box says it appears that he's getting his spells from the 'wolf god', rather than Ravenloft itself. (Yagno Petrovna, by contrast, was always clearly getting his spells from Ravenloft/the Dark Powers.) Two possibilities were suggested by the published material: The Dark Powers were providing the spells to everyone, or they were interfering with the lines of communication. The general trend of material and fanon over the course of the line was towards the former, but it was never fully nailed down.

(And of course, I6 is just an ordinary module, and I10 suggests that either I6 or I10 could be dreams, or both could be real. I don't think there's a "this is all a dream" option in play, despite the ending of I10, but it's been a while since I looked at the text.)

 

[abirdcall]

In Ravenloft moral and immoral actions have a special power and consequence to them. It is the demiplane of Dread so it has its own rules of reality like other planes.

So I don't see it as The Dark Powers granting the spells in the way that their god would but rather that the nature of the place instills power in their belief.

The Dark Powers were left ambiguous enough that the reader can interpret them as literal conscious beings or a force of nature or something else entirely.