ivocaliban
Explorer
While I'm unfamiliar with Schmidt's work, I have read Pickover's The Science of Aliens and can second the recommendation. It's a fascinating book. Just...um...beware of Chapter 6.ColonelHardisson said:
Going beyond humans in funny clothes?
- Thread starter Ry
- Start date
freyar
Extradimensional Explorer
I have to second both Col. Hardisson and Wik; CH's recommendations are good for interesting aliens, but I think Wik is right about the nature of sci-fi. In addition to Gene Roddenberry, other sci-fi authors feel the same way. For example, Ursula LeGuin's "Hainish cycle" of science fiction books are really about how people react to others who are similar in most respects but different in just a few. Two outstanding books in that very loosely related series are The Dispossessed and The Left Hand of Darkness, if you're interested; the introduction to The Left Hand of Darkness has a nice discussion of the author's views about writing, too.
comrade raoul
Explorer
"If a lion could talk, we would not understand him."
The bother is that once you try to get a race that's more complex than one-sentence descriptions, we--especially if we're trying to play a character of that race--try to make sense of the race's characteristics in human terms. In fact, we need to do that in order for the actions of such characters to really make sense to us--if we didn't, we'd see the character's actions as inexplicable, and, well, alien. At best we can give the character somewhat different priorities and motivations than we have--klingons and verrik, basically.
(And does it really make sense to hope for characters of radically different races to act in a way that allows them to interact relatively smoothly with the presumably more-human adventuring party?)
The bother is that once you try to get a race that's more complex than one-sentence descriptions, we--especially if we're trying to play a character of that race--try to make sense of the race's characteristics in human terms. In fact, we need to do that in order for the actions of such characters to really make sense to us--if we didn't, we'd see the character's actions as inexplicable, and, well, alien. At best we can give the character somewhat different priorities and motivations than we have--klingons and verrik, basically.
(And does it really make sense to hope for characters of radically different races to act in a way that allows them to interact relatively smoothly with the presumably more-human adventuring party?)
Lonely Tylenol
First Post
I think that the key to successfully roleplaying a nonhuman character in a compelling, alien way, is to keep a short list of three or four sentences that describe the basic assumptions that the being filters all interaction through.
For a dwarf, these might amount to:
1. There is nothing new. Everything has been seen before, and so tradition holds the answers to all questions.
2. Nothing is worth doing if it does not turn a profit, with the exception of religious observances.
3. Other races are inherently unreliable. Only dwarves can be counted on, especially in the face of temptation.
These are just off the top of my head, and they're pretty typical. But if you keep them written on a card in front of you, and refer to them often when making decisions, they can help to colour your actions in a way that might help to reduce the "humans in funny clothes" problem. It's important to remember, as well, that these aren't just cultural opinions. All dwarves tend toward this sort of behaviour, for the same reasons that humans tend toward the sort of behaviour that humans tend toward, for example: accumulating possessions and displaying them in a public manner, congregating in groups for no reason other than simply to talk to one another, occupying themselves with diversions like chess or cards that allow them to practice pattern-recognition, occupying themselves with diversions like sports that allow them to practice physical activities, etc.
I think the biggest barrier to successfully roleplaying a non-human is that players and DMs forget what it is that colours a thought process to make it different. Having a simple set of reminders that you consider when decisions are made helps to push you down a certain track of behaviour.
On the other hand, the reason why humans have the sort of logic and reason they do is because it succeeds in helping them to survive. Given that, we should expect that most other sentient thought processes will be more or less like human ones. I expect that outsiders, who deal with very different environments (or even different physics) would be different, but most critters from the regular world probably think pretty much in a similar fashion. So the differences are likely to be subtle. Dopplegangers and elves are capable of understanding each other.
For a dwarf, these might amount to:
1. There is nothing new. Everything has been seen before, and so tradition holds the answers to all questions.
2. Nothing is worth doing if it does not turn a profit, with the exception of religious observances.
3. Other races are inherently unreliable. Only dwarves can be counted on, especially in the face of temptation.
These are just off the top of my head, and they're pretty typical. But if you keep them written on a card in front of you, and refer to them often when making decisions, they can help to colour your actions in a way that might help to reduce the "humans in funny clothes" problem. It's important to remember, as well, that these aren't just cultural opinions. All dwarves tend toward this sort of behaviour, for the same reasons that humans tend toward the sort of behaviour that humans tend toward, for example: accumulating possessions and displaying them in a public manner, congregating in groups for no reason other than simply to talk to one another, occupying themselves with diversions like chess or cards that allow them to practice pattern-recognition, occupying themselves with diversions like sports that allow them to practice physical activities, etc.
I think the biggest barrier to successfully roleplaying a non-human is that players and DMs forget what it is that colours a thought process to make it different. Having a simple set of reminders that you consider when decisions are made helps to push you down a certain track of behaviour.
On the other hand, the reason why humans have the sort of logic and reason they do is because it succeeds in helping them to survive. Given that, we should expect that most other sentient thought processes will be more or less like human ones. I expect that outsiders, who deal with very different environments (or even different physics) would be different, but most critters from the regular world probably think pretty much in a similar fashion. So the differences are likely to be subtle. Dopplegangers and elves are capable of understanding each other.
Last edited:
Wik
First Post
All right. One thing I feel that should be pointed out - the variety among humanity is STAGGERING. To the point that, in a fantasy context, the difference between humans and a different race is probably less than the differences between humans themselves.
In our own world, right now, there are jungle cultures that, as a general rule, cannot perceive or count beyond the number three or four; anything higher than that just becomes "many".
There are cultures engaging in a sort of social suicide, drinking themselves to death - and fully aware that they are doing so.
Another jungle culture that wears nothing but tiny ropes around their waists on the men, essentially "penis-sheaths"; although, if one were to walk naked among them, they would be shocked at such an impropriety.
The number of food tabboos are amazing - East Indian groups who, while very hungry, will not eat the holy beef that surrounds them; Jewish "Kosher Foods"; the asian reliance on rice; Veganism.
And then there are cultural diseases - literally, ailments that people suffer that have resulted from cultural quirks. The best known example would be Anorexia - it is an actual disease (it's not just "in your head"), yet it is one that is only common in north america, and it can KILL YOU. Another example would be the "Evil Eye".
The point?
You don't *need* to make your aliens non-human in nature. I'd almost say it's close to impossible. There is such a diversity in human behaviour in our world, at this moment. A Japanese man and a woman from Mali share the same biology, but will see the world from entirely different lenses.
Elves, as an example, share more or less the same biology; I don't think their views on the land would be so different from those of a western human. But it's those little differences that make DMing fun.
Sorry for the rant; start talking about culture near an Anthropology major, and you get a long answer.
In our own world, right now, there are jungle cultures that, as a general rule, cannot perceive or count beyond the number three or four; anything higher than that just becomes "many".
There are cultures engaging in a sort of social suicide, drinking themselves to death - and fully aware that they are doing so.
Another jungle culture that wears nothing but tiny ropes around their waists on the men, essentially "penis-sheaths"; although, if one were to walk naked among them, they would be shocked at such an impropriety.
The number of food tabboos are amazing - East Indian groups who, while very hungry, will not eat the holy beef that surrounds them; Jewish "Kosher Foods"; the asian reliance on rice; Veganism.
And then there are cultural diseases - literally, ailments that people suffer that have resulted from cultural quirks. The best known example would be Anorexia - it is an actual disease (it's not just "in your head"), yet it is one that is only common in north america, and it can KILL YOU. Another example would be the "Evil Eye".
The point?
You don't *need* to make your aliens non-human in nature. I'd almost say it's close to impossible. There is such a diversity in human behaviour in our world, at this moment. A Japanese man and a woman from Mali share the same biology, but will see the world from entirely different lenses.
Elves, as an example, share more or less the same biology; I don't think their views on the land would be so different from those of a western human. But it's those little differences that make DMing fun.
Sorry for the rant; start talking about culture near an Anthropology major, and you get a long answer.
for some races and types i have charts i use to determin actions,. when facing an aberration in my games i roll to see if it attacks in mlee uses and ability manuevers flees or whatever. the advantage to this system is i get really inhuman results, that the players not only can't predict, they know they can't predict it.
i've used it to a lesser degree with other races, and it can work. my dragons decide if they like you and your offering (dont approach a drtagon without an offering) based on a tabel, not what you say. it makes them capricious and unpredictable which works for my game. but it's a lot of effort for anything that shows up often.
i've used it to a lesser degree with other races, and it can work. my dragons decide if they like you and your offering (dont approach a drtagon without an offering) based on a tabel, not what you say. it makes them capricious and unpredictable which works for my game. but it's a lot of effort for anything that shows up often.
Wik
First Post
Yeah, it could be an alright system, Rawhide, although I'm a little wary about it. After all, if my Dragon gets "attack with melee" as a result, knowing full well that the group is strongest in that area... well, I thought Dragons were supposed to be smart?
But you do bring up an interesting point - namely, that a human GM cannot be expected to fully play an alien mindset, and that random factors can be used almost as a tool.
I knew a GM who used a deck of cards for something like that - he'd just draw a card, and the result indicated how the NPC might behave (heart meant friendly, or favouring allies; diamonds meant the NPC was self-motivated; Spades was a devious action, and clubs meant violence... the number from 1 to 10 indicated the severity of the action, and face cards meant something else entirely that I can't remember).
But you do bring up an interesting point - namely, that a human GM cannot be expected to fully play an alien mindset, and that random factors can be used almost as a tool.
I knew a GM who used a deck of cards for something like that - he'd just draw a card, and the result indicated how the NPC might behave (heart meant friendly, or favouring allies; diamonds meant the NPC was self-motivated; Spades was a devious action, and clubs meant violence... the number from 1 to 10 indicated the severity of the action, and face cards meant something else entirely that I can't remember).
I think that in some respects, having species that act completely different then humans is overrated. If something is totally alien, then the players won't be able to really relate to it, and it won't be very much fun to interact with. Unless you're doing this for a villain or something, then it works pretty well. Every race or character that someone makes up is going to be human in some respect, no matter how much the creator tries to avoid it. This is simply because we can only create things from our mental standpoint. We just don't have much knowledge about any other thought-process then our own. It's okay to have some human tendencies in any race that you make though, because that makes them more interesting, I find.
K.A. Applegate does some good aliens that are reasonably different in the Animorphs series (nostalgia
)
K.A. Applegate does some good aliens that are reasonably different in the Animorphs series (nostalgia
)
You could always take Lovecraft's approach, making the non-humans utterly alien, so much so they are hard to see as living entities let alone sentient beings with whom you could communicate.
HeavenShallBurn
First Post
There are some indications that at a fundamental level true sapience is constrained to a model that is strongly anthropic in nature simply as a result of the way in which it functions.
Similar Threads
