Good/Bad d20 Publishers? Sorry, I know this has been asked before...

[Treebore]

I like Necromancer. Great modules that often have good campaign building resources. They have also entered into the campaign world creation business by re-doing and re-introducing Judges Guilds old Wilderlands campaign World.

They have also done Necropolis, a mega-module that also introduces you to a egyptian flavored setting. I personally won't use it without re-writing a lot of the adventure, but the campaign flavor is good stuff.

They will also be doing Mesopotamia, hopefully within the year.

The campaign region of Hawkmoon is also detailed through several of Necromancers modules, I believe they are Lamentation of Thieves, Where Evil Lurk's, the yet to be released BoneGarden, and one other I am blanking on. These modules are very good and very under appreciated.

Give Necromancer a good look, I bet you'll like them.

Goodman games is another good one that is under appreciated. They do a lot of stuff associated with Dinosaurs, but they also do a fair amount of straight D&D material, such as their "Compleat" series about Dopplegangers, Liches, were Rats, Drow, Beholders, and maybe one or two more I am forgetting. I have just recently (within the last week) been convinced to get their adventure modules as well.
Both of these companies have websites for you to check out.

I also like Kenzer and Green Ronin. I have bought all of Kenzer's modules and most of their sourcebooks, and i do not run a Kalamar campaign. They are also the one's who do Hackmaster, but I do not play or own any of that material.

Of Green Ronin I have only bought their stuff directly related to D&D. It is all good stuff, and I really like, love, worship their Book of The Righteous. It is very expensive if you get it at full retail, but i do not regret having it. It is the best treatment of religion/priests I have ever seen. I have seen 20+ years of gaming product!

Those are the one's I would start with if I was you. FFE, FFG, Bastion, Mystic Eye, and others all have stuff worth owning, but i would save them for last.

Conan by Mongoose is a great license, but they really screwed up in publishing it. Let them get things straightened out and do a new print run before you buy that book. Mongoose Matt has said that is what they are doing and has even apologized for how badly done the book is. But he also promises to do the Conan license justice on their next attempt. Considering how great it looks before you read it that shouldn't be a hard promise to keep.


I am also of the opinion that Mongoose is very hit or miss. When it is good it is very good, when it is bad it is bad. I own very little of their stuff because of this.

I do not like Malhavoc. Not because it isn't good. It is good, but Monte's "style" is way too different from mine. The Eldritch books are worth mining for ideas, though. A lot of people i know also like his Arcana Unearthed.

Hope this has helped.

 

[Harlock]

It all depends on your style and the flavor you and your group prefer. You've probably noticed that you are seeing some publishers in both good and bad categories from different respondents. That's about the size of it. Personally, I think going by publisher is a poor choice. Even the best publishers out there have had a couple of absolutely abyssmal products. Even the best writers out there have hit or miss products.

If I recall correctly, dreaded beast, you are new to DMing. My best advice to you is to check out individual products in which you think you may be interested. Determine what you are interested in expanding in your campaign. Do you want a completely new setting? Take a look at setting books from different companies. Most companies have previews on their websites for their campaign settings. Are you looking to expand feats, spells, classes, prestige classes, psionics, etc? Then find out about those specifically.

I am in the camp that no publisher has a 100% track record and is worthy of selling me every book. However, I do run in a specific campaign setting, so do buy every book for that setting. And, yes, I have gotten some stinkers, but at least the flavor is there, and that is mainly what I want for this setting. Once you've identified your needs, use the review section of EN World to determine what you would like to buy. Even before you do this, you may want to compare specific reviewers with your own opinions on books you already own. That way, you can find one or two that seem to think about like you and feel more confident in trusting their judgement.

I'm sorry that this is not exactly what you have asked for, but each individual is unique and so needs to identify what it is (s)he needs for their game and then identify the best way to find out which of the myriad of d20 products out there is best suited for themselves.

 

[dreaded_beast]

Thanks for all the great responses guys!

I didn't really mean for this thread to be answered in such an in-depth fashion

Since I'm sure this has been answered many times before, I was just hoping for a link to the previous threads so I could peruse them. (Maybe this is a hint to become a community supporter )

Anyways, thanks for all the responses, and once again, sorry to all the moderators for starting an old thread.

*edit: Ugh, I had to reread what I wrote. I can't believe how much sense my former response didn't make!

 

[Psion]

I wasn't going to reply as my typical position is to judge the books individually. However, there have been some claims here that I feel are a little unfair, so I guess I'll deposit my two coppers.

AFAIAC, Green Ronin and Malhavoc are the two top tier companies. Not all of their products will appeal to all people naturally, so I don't think that's a fair cop. However, they seem to have the most consistently high quality standards and most rigorous handle on the rules.

If published adventures are your thing, Necromancer should be near the top of your list. Now that they don't have Kuntz in their stable anymore and have hired some very good cartographers, I think it's fair to say that their quality is as consistently high as Green Ronin or Malhavoc. They are also branching out from adventures into more general use products.

I think of AEG, FFG, and Mongoose as the "mixed companies". It seems like if you hit the right author, you have great stuff, otherwise, buyer beware. Unfortunately, one of the strongest freelancers who worked for all three of these companies is now exclusive with Malhavoc, but some new talent like Hanrahan and Ibach is helping keep these guys shored up.

AEG's products vary widely in quality and presentation. For the Spycraft and Stargate lines, they pull out all the stops and give you some pretty books with some great authors, though I am worried a little bit after they retired their very supportive mechanics lead. The line has innovative and functional mechanics, but I must admit SFA waxes a little fluffy for me at points (I guess that's sort of the point behind a setting, but still.) The L5R/Rokugan line had a strong start into the d20 arena, but I tend to think of their secrets series as optional and also dwells a bit too much on minutia for my taste. Their "one word topic" books had a pretty rough start with some pretty uneven material, but their quality seems to be stabilizing and there are some real gems being put out in the series. "Toolbox" is famous for its utility, but has some stat block problems; "Good" and "Magic" are very innovative and did many of the things you see in 3.5 products like UA and BoED much earlier (and still has some things that WotC has not matched); "Relics" is "FFE's magic item's book line done right" -- more compact with more adaptable stories and correct game statistics.

Mongoose varies widely also, but at least with any book, the quality is even as they tend to use one author per product. With the Quintessential Books, I think Wizard, Rogue, Monk, and Sorcerer are worth having. Psion and Psychic Warrior have some interesting ideas, but are a bit rough around the edges. They have been getting a bit better reputation with their stand-alone games, some of which are simply gorgeous. The Encyclopaedia line has some interesting topics with some great entries (Chaos Mage, Constructs, Necromancy, and Shamans), but some not so great entries. Their classic play line is also all over the map; frex, I like the book of Dragons but found Strongholds & Dynasties relatively worthless. The Slayers Guide line isn't too useful, but some people I know like them. The newer, bigger ones are better, but the production values are pretty low. In short, I think Mongoose products are best purchased at the FLGS, where you can thumb through them first.

FFG has pretty good production value and has tapped some great artists like Brase and Hian for most of their products. They seem to suffer a mixture of the AEG one word problem (books with a mixture of good and poor material, in particular the "Path" books) and the Mongoose problem (value varies by author.) Generally, I find the books headed up by Wilson (monster books and school books) and Mearls to be the best; theres some gems in the Path books as well, but you have to sift through some junk to get to it. Dragonstar had a strong start, but the follow on books are weaker. Midnight is a good but very exclusive setting (i.e., great if you are going to play it, not so good for idea mining.) I haven't purchased any of their mini games so can't comment on them.

Sword and Sorcery Studios is White Wolf's main d20 publishing house, and concerns itself mainly with the Scarred Lands setting. There core books have a tendency to be useful in any fantasy game. Their earliest books had some balance and rules issues (and one, CCI, was very early and very rough indeed, but there is a revised version), but nonetheless I consider Relics and Rituals a flavorful and innovative addition to any fantasy game. Scarred Lands is possibly one of the best supported d20 fantasy settings, with a great many setting books along with the optional rulebooks. However, it is this that has caused me to shy away from it; there's too much out there for me.

Atlas is an established company with some nice products that often get overlooked. Their presentation values are consistently high. Atlas has two lines: Penumbra and Coriolis. Coriolis is their "mixed" line that has adventures for both d20 fantasy and one of Atlas' house games (like Ars Magica or Unknown Armies). I think Coriolis is the weaker of the two lines, as I have yet to be impressed by the value of one of their adventures. As for Penumbra, many of their books are map and setting, and "fragment" books that have bits you can drop right into a campaign. I don't see most of their products as must haves, but see most of their products as useful.

Bastion had a rough start as well. Their main artist was not widely appreciated (though two ennies judges last year saw some appeal), and they only reluctantly let go of the expensive color format (which IMO was not serving them well.) The do have some very good supplements worth hunting down: Spells & Magic, Airships, and (to a lesser extent) Alchemy & Herbalists. Other books I am more dubious about. Their Oathbound setting is nice, but aggravating. I like the setting ideas and many of the mechanics, but I think they focused too much on Pennance out of the starting gate and started introducing some VERY sketchy mechanics.

ENPublishing is a nice company with some good stuff. Most of their stuff is available on PDF, but some can be had through Mystic Eye games in print, or as print-on-demand. Some stuff I am honestly not that impressed with, but some I think is bar setting (like Necromancer's Legacy), but a lot of it is the type of stuff you browse though if you are looking for specific elements to add to your campaign, like Wild Spellcraft or Tournaments, Friars, and Taverns. (Disclaimer, ENPublishing is a publishing arm of ENworld.)

Mystic Eye is a somewhat smaller company. It seems like some of their best material is not their best selling material, because you won't find some of their best titles in print anymore. I find Bluffside to be the most compelling drop-in city on the market. Foul Locales is a series of interesting drop in locales in the same vein as you will find by Atlas. I gotta admit, though, their flagship setting, Hunt: Rise of Evil didn't do it for me. But Hunt: The Fall of Mall, considering the bad vibes coming from d20 Gamma World, might position itself as the premeir d20 post holocaust product.

There are some "up and comers" that I think are worth keeping your eye on.

RPGobjects started out as a primarily PDF company, but are bringing some of their best stuff to print. The blood series is really a great "killer app" for d20 modern if you like that engine. I think if they branch out a bit, they could be a bigger contender.

Bad Axe games is in a similar boat. They started off with a line of balance-conservative race books that should keep those who see power escalation everywhere they look happy, and Mr. Durbin also brings some great new mechanics like ley line magic to the game. Bad Axe is expanding their line by bringing you print versions of RoninArts popular PDFs and the new Grim Tales low fantasy d20 variant.

Human Head studios only has one book to their record, but it's a doozy: the very pretty and innovative harry-potteresque Redhurst. It should be interesting to see if they have anything else is up their sleeves.

Goodman Games is probably more established than any of the aforementioned, but much of their earlier products were not well appreciated by the market. They are branching out a little and are involved in some interesting products. Some of their complete creature books are very well written, and I certainly think their creature specific lines are more innovative that most comparable books by competitors like the slayers guides (the exception being the complete book of Drow, which pales before Green Ronin's Plot & Poison, but still has a few good ideas.) Their beholder book was fantastic. Their underdark guide and creature books are good as well (reviews forthcoming!)

 

[S'mon]

I like Necromancer. Great modules that often have good campaign building resources. They have also entered into the campaign world creation business by re-doing and re-introducing Judges Guilds old Wilderlands campaign World.

They have also done Necropolis, a mega-module that also introduces you to a egyptian flavored setting. I personally won't use it without re-writing a lot of the adventure, but the campaign flavor is good stuff.

Necropolis nearly killed my campaign - you don't realise how bad it is until you try to run that m-f'er!!

Looking at my 3e shelf, let's see:

Necromancer - Necropolis - ugh. Horrible. Maybe worth it as a campaign resource sourcebook, as a scenario it's the only one I've ever abandoned. Truly awful (in both senses of the word). The black text in grey pages is the icing on the cake. Monster & other sections at back seem fine. *

Troll Lord Games - Lost City of Gaxmoor - a fun campaign/scenario pack, simple style. Editing poor, stats are wonky, "balance" is disregarded - CR 20 BBEG in a scenario supposedly for 1st-10th level. I enjoyed it a lot and have got lots of mileage from it. ***+

Sword & Sorcery Studios - Creature Collections 1 & 2. Didn't like these, black text on grey again - they co-produced Necropolis so I blame them for that. A few monsters are ok, eg the ratmen and I like Upper_Krust's Iron Devil in CC2, but I hate the feel of their Scarred Lands setting, which intrudes into every creature description . Far too much Clive Barker Splatterpunk type creatures, mostly Aberrations. **-

Mongoose - I have a ridiculous amount of their stuff. It's highly variable, most of the Slayer's Guides contain little of value, they have no regard for balance in eg Quint Fighter (mostly overpowered) or Quint Rogue (underpowered). OTOH their stuff is easy to make good with firm editing. They clearly put a lot of effort into their licensed-product lines, Slaine is beautiful but too thin, Conan is fantastic DESPITE a proof-reading disaster when they switched from OGL to d20 and shoved in half the SRD without proper editing. ***, but ****+ if you ignore the generic non-license stuff.

Green Ronin - I have Legions of Hell & Armies of the Abyss. Legions really does have that fine "first edition feel" that Necromancer's Necropolis definitely doesn't. A quality work. Armies unfortunately has a whole pantheon of demon lords with no stats for them! This takes up most of the book and is inappropriate for D&D IMO. ****

Avalanche Press - I have Greenland Saga, Ragnarok and Pirates of the Caribbean. I like the cheescake covers, which would be fine in pulp-fantasy but they're totally inappropriate for the supposedly hardcore-historical approach Avalanche takes in the contents within. The content always refers to and attempts to justify the covers as historically accurate, which is weird and just makes it worse IMO. Also they're not as smart as they think they are. **-

 

[Alaric_Prympax]

To just mention 5, hmmm...

Everyone seems to have mentioned MO's on my favorite publishers, excluding WotC though they would be up there as well, so as not to take up too much space...

Necromancer Games- best adventures with background settings
Green Ronin- wide range of subjects with correct rule usage and Freeport
Malhavoc Press- inovated rules and new magic
Bad Axe Games- best race books out there IMO
Sword & Sorcery- I like SL and RL so sue me


OK so I couldn't just mention 5:

Mongoose is hit and miss
Fantasy Flight Games is good but there can only be 5 in my top 5 favorites
Goodman Games has been a recent favorite mine
Mystice Eye Games produces and/or distributes good products
I've liked the Monsternomicon from Privateer Press and From Stone to Steel from Monkey God Enterprises

I believe people have already covered the bad.

 

[Varianor Abroad]

Already a lot of good commentary in this thread. Nothing really to add since I have a notorious fondness for Malhavoc products.

However, there's two product that I think most DMs would benefit from that you'd never see mentioned in a publisher list. With you as a beginning DM, I think that you would benefit by checking them out:

Robin's Laws of Good Game Mastery, from Steve Jackson Games

NPC Essentials, by Johnn Four

 

[Derulbaskul]

For someone new to DMing I would probably recommend sticking to the core books until you're confident about evaluating balance etc... when you purchase third party products. I would also recommend using the reviews on this site before you make a purchase. Psion does the best of the staff reviews IMO.

IMO, until you're more confident I would strongly recommend against any products by AEG, Goodman Games and Mongoose as their understanding and implementation of d20 rules can be really, really poor. There are few things worse for a DM, especially a new one, than a player discovering a broken prestige class or feat or spell for his character and then completely dominating the party as a result. I would also note that, for that reason, I would recommend avoiding even the WotC 3E splatbooks until you have some more experience.

FFE should be avoided like the plague whether you're a new DM or old. Don't get them confused with FFG: FFG is one of the top rank publishers, IMO.

 

[Ylis]

Good: Green Ronin (most of their stuff is relatively nice-looking and good mechanics-wise), Khan's Press (some of their older stuff was decent, but they've come out with really outstanding products in the past few months...my favorite is Soul Harvest, and I'm reading and loving their newest ElfClash...plus I just found out they're doing a magazine, which I'm getting today....), Bastion Press (this one's just a given....), and, of course WotC...

Bad: Children of the Grave Press (thought I'd pass along this little gem...ick...unless they've changed recently, I wasn't too thrilled with them..not sure if they're even still in business..)

The "good" category is pretty much what I deal with I thought I'd mention a couple of the smaller companies as well, since everyone seems to love and mention WotC, Malhavoc Press, Bastion Press, etc.....I usually get smaller companies' stuff because it's cheaper, and you can usually find some good stuff. Some are just outstanding, most are just alright, some are terrible....it's a gamble

Good luck!

 

[DaveMage]

Top Notch:

For Adventures: Necromancer Games

For Rulebooks: Bastion Press, Green Ronin

For Combination/Settings: AEG, Atlas, Eden Studios, Fantasy Flight Games, Malhavoc Press, Mystic Eye Games, Paradigm


But, really, you need monster books. You can NEVER have enough monster books:

All the WotC monster books
Tome of Horrors
All 3 Creature Collections (CC1 Revised, not CC1)
Fantasy Bestiary
Book of Beasts (Liber Bestarius)
The "Lore" books from FFG

Great stuff.