D&D 5E Good news! The RAW answer to: "When does a rest end?"

[FrogReaver]

It's amazing how some continue to misconstrue Aaron's position.

His position is that the players get to control their actions. They get to choose when to stop resting. However, they don't get to choose what actions end a rest. Neither are what actions that end a rest explicit in the rules. Therefore it's the DM that decides what actions are required of a player/character in order to stop resting. If the player/character performs those actions then the rest ends. There is every bit as much player/character choice using his criteria as the more common "let the players just declare the end of a rest".

 

[Shiroiken]

This looks like an argument of semantics, which is the failure of RAW. If a DM doesn't want to allow doubling up of Short Rests or Long Rest/Short Rest, they can simply say you can't rest again (until, say an hour has passed or something). There is nothing in RAW that prevents this (not that the rules override the DM anyway). The joys of 5E are allowing each DM to figure out what works best for their game, hopefully with a solid dose of common sense.

 

[Caliban]

This looks like an argument of semantics, which is the failure of RAW. If a DM doesn't want to allow doubling up of Short Rests or Long Rest/Short Rest, they can simply say you can't rest again (until, say an hour has passed or something). There is nothing in RAW that prevents this (not that the rules override the DM anyway). The joys of 5E are allowing each DM to figure out what works best for their game, hopefully with a solid dose of common sense.

I think we are all aware of that. But we are choosing to argue about it anyway, because this is the Internet.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

His position is that the players get to control their actions. They get to choose when to stop resting. However, they don't get to choose what actions end a rest.

If the characters can't decide to rest until they have recovered, and then stop resting, then that's an untenable position.

It would be like if they couldn't eat until they were full, and then stop eating, just because the rules don't specify an upper limit on how much food you can eat in a day.

 

[Arial Black]

It's amazing how some continue to misconstrue Aaron's position.

His position is that the players get to control their actions. They get to choose when to stop resting. However, they don't get to choose what actions end a rest. Neither are what actions that end a rest explicit in the rules. Therefore it's the DM that decides what actions are required of a player/character in order to stop resting. If the player/character performs those actions then the rest ends. There is every bit as much player/character choice using his criteria as the more common "let the players just declare the end of a rest".

Player: We're resting until we're fully healed and got our slots back. Let us know when we have, and then we'll start our adventuring day.

DM: Okay, you've rested for 8 hours or so; go ahead and get the benefits of a long rest.

Player: Cool. I'll now tire myself out by casting spells until my spell slots are totally spent. It should take about 6 seconds. Now that I'm tired out, I rest to refresh my resources.

DM: You can't! That would just be a longer rest!

Player: No, we know for a fact that the long rest ended, because we got the benefits of the long rest and we only get the benefits when the rest has ended. QED.

DM; Grrr!

Next day:-

Player: We've been resting for 8 hours, have we had a long rest yet.

DM: No.

Player: Oh, why not? What stopped us?

DM: You're still resting, therefore your rest hasn't finished yet.

Player: Since we're resting until we get our hit points/slots back, when will this rest end?

DM: Never. Not as long as you continue to rest.

Player: What, so the game ends now?

DM: No, you have to do something that isn't resting.

Player: Spellcasting is defined as strenuous activity. We'll do that!

DM: Too bad you don't have any slots left! Ha, ha!

Player: So what can we do so the game doesn't end?

DM: According to the description of a long rest, strenuous activity of up to an hour will not interrupt a long rest. Therefore, until you engage in strenuous activity for more than one hour, the rest hasn't ended!

Player: So, what you're telling us is that we don't get the benefits of a rest by just resting! We only get the benefits of a rest....after strenuous activity? For over an hour?

DM: That's my interpretation!

Player: Somehow, I do not think that is Rules As Intended...!

 

[Arial Black]

Related question:
If a long rest gets interrupted after 1-7 hours, does it count as a short rest?

For example: The characters stop for a long rest. They are attacked by wandering monsters 4 hours into the rest. The players want to roll HD before combat starts, as though they have taken a short rest.

Thoughts?

Absolutely! As long as you have a solid uninterrupted hour's rest at any time during that period then you have just had a short rest.

Remember, 'resting' isn't really an 'activity'! 'Resting' is 'not doing strenuous activity'!

There are not two different types of 'not doing anything'! When you watch paint dry for 45 minutes you don't have to decide in advance whether this was a 'long rest' type of not doing anything or a 'short rest' type of not doing anything.

If at any point you realise that you haven't done anything strenuous during the previous hour then you have just had a short rest. If, seven hours after that, you realise that you haven't done anything strenuous, then you have just had 8 hours of rest, and meet all the criteria for a long rest, although you can only benefit from one long rest per day.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

Absolutely! As long as you have a solid uninterrupted hour's rest at any time during that period then you have just had a short rest.

Remember, 'resting' isn't really an 'activity'! 'Resting' is 'not doing strenuous activity'!

There are not two different types of 'not doing anything'! When you watch paint dry for 45 minutes you don't have to decide in advance whether this was a 'long rest' type of not doing anything or a 'short rest' type of not doing anything.

If at any point you realise that you haven't done anything strenuous during the previous hour then you have just had a short rest. If, seven hours after that, you realise that you haven't done anything strenuous, then you have just had 8 hours of rest, and meet all the criteria for a long rest, although you can only benefit from one long rest per day.

Again, that's your interpretation - not actually the "RAW answer", nor even the only possible interpretation.

And it isn't an interpretation that is as supported by the actual words in the rule book as some others are, given the fact that it requires ignoring that the book specifically details two different types of rest by giving paragraph headings and names to them, and that those two different types of rest have different conditions so that if you are 45 minutes into a rest and monsters attack you, a short rest would be spoiled and have to be re-started, but a long rest would continue on just fine so long as the interruption of and related to the combat didn't last an hour or longer.

 

[Plaguescarred]

Some abilities recharge after a short rest, and some DMs are terrified of letting their PCs use their abilities.

Because someone got it into their head that they could deny the end of a long rest, and use that to prevent following a long rest with a short rest. By saying that a rest wasn't technically over yet, and that any new rest you take is just part of the preceding rest, it prevents anyone from using an ability as soon as it recovers and then resting in order to recover it again.

Since they don't want to house rule in a limit on how many short rests you can take in a day, for whatever reason, they instead want to pretend that you just can't take a short rest unless you've met some arbitrary condition since your previous rest. It lets them pretend that they're still playing by the rules in the book, as though that matters.

I have yet to see a DM actually do this from all the games i've played or run online or in person, i have never seen someone trying to screw up a party's rest this way. I mean i've prevented resting before in my games, but it was for obvious reasons like major disturbance or not enought time since the last long rest. I don't see regularly preventing short rests as a good thing for one's campaign, especially for certain classes which are more dependant than others.

This issue would be with the individual DM though, not the rules themselves.


Yan
D&D Playtester

 

[ThePolarBear]

Player: We're resting until we're fully healed and got our slots back. Let us know when we have, and then we'll start our adventuring day.

DM: Okay, you've rested for 8 hours or so; go ahead and get the benefits of a long rest.

Player: Cool. I'll now tire myself out by casting spells until my spell slots are totally spent. It should take about 6 seconds. Now that I'm tired out, I rest to refresh my resources.

DM: You can't! That would just be a longer rest!

Player: No, we know for a fact that the long rest ended, because we got the benefits of the long rest and we only get the benefits when the rest has ended. QED.

DM; Grrr!

Next day:-

Player: We've been resting for 8 hours, have we had a long rest yet.

DM: No.

Player: Oh, why not? What stopped us?

DM: You're still resting, therefore your rest hasn't finished yet.

Player: Since we're resting until we get our hit points/slots back, when will this rest end?

DM: Never. Not as long as you continue to rest.

Player: What, so the game ends now?

DM: No, you have to do something that isn't resting.

Player: Spellcasting is defined as strenuous activity. We'll do that!

DM: Too bad you don't have any slots left! Ha, ha!

Player: So what can we do so the game doesn't end?

DM: According to the description of a long rest, strenuous activity of up to an hour will not interrupt a long rest. Therefore, until you engage in strenuous activity for more than one hour, the rest hasn't ended!

Player: So, what you're telling us is that we don't get the benefits of a rest by just resting! We only get the benefits of a rest....after strenuous activity? For over an hour?

DM: That's my interpretation!

Player: Somehow, I do not think that is Rules As Intended...!

I would also add to the point that a strenuos activity of one hour or longer does not END a long rest: It interrupts it. No matter how long you have been resting for if you take an hour doing something that is not resting before the long rest ends you have to start from scratch since RAW tells you you gain no benefit from the interrupted rest.

edit: obvious exceptions mentioned in the rules excluded.

 

[Darkness]

Please don't start new threads for topics that recently resulted in threads having to be closed.

In order to prevent further unrest, please give this rest issue a rest for at least the rest of February.