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Good Non d20 systems?

The original Deadlands and Call of Cthulhu are good systems.

Both Peginc and Chaosism like their own systems and the d20 versions I think are just an attempt at getting into another market but they will continue to support their owns systems full force.

I do have to say that the original Deadlands system is much diffirent from d20 but the Call of Cthulhu d20 and BRP systems are similiar.
 

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The third edition of Talislanta has the best magic system I have ever seen.

It is what I always wanted Ars Magica to be, but somehow it never was.

We never could wrap our arms around Ars Magica's magic system.

But Talislantas is as close to perfect as possible.

Razuur
 

Oo this is good question...

For myself i would have to categorise it as follows:

Best non D20, for Theme and System:
1)FASA's Earthdawn (excellent game, though it had perhaps the worst cover and PR of any RPG i've known).
2) Cyberpunk 20.20 by R.Talisorean (had a few flaws, but just rocked from start to finish)
3) Wasteworld, can't recall who published this, some Yugoslavian company i think. but it was excellent, though either went unnoticed, ro unappreciated as there hasn't been aything new for it a long time.

Best non D20, for Theme, though system was not upto scratch
1) Mechwarrior by FASA (created to complement the Battletech tabletop game, this had depth and history and color in the bucket load, but the RPG system was a little disappointing).
2) Pendragon by chaosium (Arthurian game, usual % system of the original Cthulhu, not the best system, but the topic was so colourful and detailed, this book was more like a history book for RPg'er..great stuff).
3) RIFTs & Robotech etc.. by Palladium (These guys have some of the best ideas and artwork in any games, but have no sense of game balance, and THE worst system ever, pity really, they have half of perfection and then refuse to listen to reason)
4) Traveller, original (Great game,oodles of history and depth and feel, but the system in some additions needed a maths degree to cope with...still it's endeared to enough people to have always made a comeback, and you can't fault that in a game)
5) Stormbringer by Chaosium (the Original Hardback version, again used the % cthullhu system, but this game gave the feel of the books, had some wonderful pullouts and was well made and written)
6) Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay by Games Workshop (again had a lovely world most of us grew up with, excelent artwork as only GW do, but the system was a lazy conversion of thier tabletop game and was a basic % system... still if they had ever released a WH40K version i'd still have bought it <g>)
7) Shadowrun by FASA (excellent background and feel, and setting, but definitely a bucket of dice system, still it is playable despite that fact)
8) Vampire, Werewolf etc.. by White Wolf (excellent themes, and productions, good art mixed with terrible art, but once again bucket of dice systems, although again still remained playable)
9) Gamma World 4th by TSR (the Last edition of Gamma World sadly were ever going to see seemingly, the PA setting is the untapped market along with the superhero genre, as far as good systems and settings go, but this was as good as it gets..so why is it here and not in the first list....well because it's out of print, damned hard to find, and unlikely to reappear despite its loyal fanbase).
10) Marvel Super Heroes by TSR (again awful system, but totally loyal to the theme and feel of the comics, good artwork and bucket loads of feel, but perhaps one of the worst systems ever to be thought up.. still i wish they'd remake a D20 version, pretty please, or someone buy Marvels license and do it<g>)

and thats off the top of my head, and a glance at my gaming collection in sight <g>
 

Ars Magica all the way. It's probably the best game out there bar none. Its only flaw is the combat system in its current 4e incarnation, but if you just use 3e or a hybrid of two, it's easily taken care of. Better yet, just port the Feng Shui combat system to Ars; there are those who have done it and according to them, it's very easy to do, as Ars and Fengshui share a same lineage.

So, with the exception of combat, Ars has proven remarkably resilient despite all the changes that has happened in the industry. Without doubt, Ars has remained virtually unchanged in its core mechanics for most of its existence and through 4 different editions without becoming outdated--not a small feat, if I may say so.

Its strength lies in the magic system, its system of advantages and disadvantages which it does better than any other, and in the character advancement mechanics. It's simply brilliant in how logical and un-meta, for the lack of better word, it is for characters to advance. No nebulous system of xp, challenges, how tough it was, did you roleplay well, or other purely game factors. To advance, you practice, study, experiment, or get a tutor--something that people do IRL to further their skills. There are, of course, roleplaying xp but they are not as important as the other means of advancement.

For runner-ups, I like Elric 5e, which I believe is more advanced than BRP used by CoC. Certainly, the combat is much more exciting and fun than in CoC.

Trinity/Adventure/Abb, as well as Exalted, are pretty good too, I believe that this is as far as WW can take its bucket o'dice mechanics without drastically overhauling its system. Sort of the ultimate form of WW's d10 mechanics. Exalted and Adventure seem especially fun to run.

Feng Shui is great. While the setting is cheezy as hell and totally laughable, the underlying mechanics is magnificent.
 

Razuur said:
The third edition of Talislanta has the best magic system I have ever seen.

It is what I always wanted Ars Magica to be, but somehow it never was.

We never could wrap our arms around Ars Magica's magic system.

But Talislantas is as close to perfect as possible.

Razuur

A long time ago when Talislanta came out I played in a campaign in a comic store. I was a Kang warrior. The DM cancelled it when one of the wizards managed to basically take over an entire town by using some low leveled spells and other stuff. The DM delcaired the system broken and we switched to WEG Star Wars.
 
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Flexor the Mighty! said:


A long time ago when Talislanta came out I played in a campaign in a comic store. I was a Kang warrior. The DM cancelled it when one of the wizards managed to basically take over an entire town by using some low leveled spells and other stuff. The DM delcaired the system broken and we switched to WEG Star Wars.

I'd hardly use that as a vote against the Talislanta system... because basicly it shouldn't have worked. At least, it wouldn't in fourth...
 

Ironclaw by Sanguine productions. It has a very intuitive mechanic that manages to use dice effectivley without the rolls getting in the way of the playing.
 

Flexor the Mighty! said:
I've read some of the Vampire stuff and it reminded me of an Anne Rice vampire novel. That's not good. Vampires aren't immortal lovers in frilly shirts, they are Nasferatu and the vampire from Salem's Lot, beasts who prey on the living!

Gee, and I thought they were fictional....
 

If you didn't like WW just because of Vampire don't give up on it entirely.

I recommend trying:

Exalted - high action fantasy
Trinity - near future sci fi
Adventure - pulp goodness

and even:

Changeling - magical faerie world exists over our own.
 

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