Good Uses for Bull Rush, Overrun, Grappling, and Trip

[Gnome]

I've never used these manuevers as either a player or DM, so I'd like some ideas for good tactics using any of these actions.

Bull rush in particular doesn't seem very useful unless you routinely fight foes that are perched at the edge of a cliff. In what other cases is it useful to push an opponent back 1 or more squares?

I suppose overrun is good to get through hostile squares without having tumble, and both overrun and trip are good for letting others get in one good attack against the foe before he gets up again (and getting AoO against him when he does).

How about grappling? The only good tactic I can think of is to grapple and pin an enemy spellcaster and prevent him from casting most spells to allow the rest of the party to finish him off quickly.

Does anyone have any good character builds based around any of these manuevers? Thanks.

 

[Thanee]

In what other cases is it useful to push an opponent back 1 or more squares?

To free a swarmed ally maybe.

How about grappling? The only good tactic I can think of is to grapple and pin an enemy spellcaster and prevent him from casting most spells to allow the rest of the party to finish him off quickly.

Or grapple the overspecialized fighters and see how they can fight without their trusted greatswords.

Does anyone have any good character builds based around any of these manuevers?

I just posted a fighter (not the best, but a good one) using trip attacks on the thread about best fighter builds.

Bye
Thanee

 

[cmanos]

Grappling came in handy in my game last saturday in which Tank, the dwarven barbarian was grappled by a Choker, wend unconsious and dragged into a very confined space. My greatsword wielding cleric jumped into the hole, only to find I couldn't swing my greatsword effectively. Thankfully, I'm building him up as a wrestler too...Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Grapple....Grabbed the little beast, dragged it out of it's hole and choked the crap out of it.

Tripping is always good if a creature is trying to run away and you get an AoO on them, or if they are throwing something you want and forgot to take a 5' step away from you.

They are very underused feats and are really fun ways to play with your opponent instead of killing them.

 

[Plane Sailing]

BBEG cast prismatic wall across the room to separate the buff fighter from the rest of the party and his pet golems bull rushed the fighter into said prismatic wall.

Would work particularly well with undead vs wall of fire, anything vs blade barrier etc.

In a party you could bull rush a foe past one of your mates, preferablly a rogue, who can then get a sneak attack AoO against the thing you're bull rushing.

 

[Gnome]

BBEG cast prismatic wall across the room to separate the buff fighter from the rest of the party and his pet golems bull rushed the fighter into said prismatic wall.

Would work particularly well with undead vs wall of fire, anything vs blade barrier etc.

Cool ideas. Thanks.

In a party you could bull rush a foe past one of your mates, preferablly a rogue, who can then get a sneak attack AoO against the thing you're bull rushing.

I understand that he would get an AoO, but what allows this to also be a sneak attack?

 

[Lasher Dragon]

I've seen Bull Rush used to really annoy a DM - just when his minion escapes from a Web, he gets bullrushed back into it

 

[Voodoo]

Playing a warforged on the way to warforged juggernaught I was forced to take Improved Bull Rush, buy it has been quite useful. So far dominated gnomes have been sent flying off the top of an airship tower, repelling boarders onto the lightning rail and sending all manner of creatures into the ocean from the ships we've been sailing around on.

I think it depends on how dynamic the scenery of your battles is. in a 10 ft wide corridor its usefulness is much less.

One tactic i'm still waiting to try out is to bull rush the enemy through the partys threatened areas if I have ended up on the far side of the encounter, anyone put this to good use yet? was it more effective than simply hitting the enemy

 

[Kemrain]

Next time you're in arial combat and about 100 feet off the ground, try tripping your winged opponent. They get the +4 for Stability bonus, but if you can do it, they stall, fall, and take 10d6 damage. Not bad for an opposed strength check, eh?

Grappling can be fun, because you can move a pinned opponent. You can move him through your friend's threatened areas. Round after round. While he's denied his Dex bonus. Do you see where I'm going with this?

Bullrush, as stated, is great for environmental hazards, but it seems underused even when the environment is hostile. I find it can be useful for placing opponents within the AoE of a spell that has yet to be cast.

- Kemrain the Mobile.

 

[catdragon]

I've never used these manuevers as either a player or DM, so I'd like some ideas for good tactics using any of these actions.

Bull rush in particular doesn't seem very useful unless you routinely fight foes that are perched at the edge of a cliff. In what other cases is it useful to push an opponent back 1 or more squares?

A few games ago, I was GMing, and I caught the PCs going around a chasm underground. the drop was something like 1000'. Anyhowe, the BBGs sent a huge earth elemental after them. The EE staying in the wall and bull rushed the PCs off. It was pretty ugly there.

I suppose overrun is good to get through hostile squares without having tumble, and both overrun and trip are good for letting others get in one good attack against the foe before he gets up again (and getting AoO against him when he does).

Last Sunday another PC was trapped and getting wailed on by a bunch of bugbears, goblins, and hobgoblins (all with levels). Any how, the PC was just about to go down and be chopped into small bits of orc chow when another PC, a half-ogre, overran his opponent to help. Believe me, improved overrun really came in handy. And then when the opponent started to get back up, AOOs all around.

How about grappling? The only good tactic I can think of is to grapple and pin an enemy spellcaster and prevent him from casting most spells to allow the rest of the party to finish him off quickly.

Mage killers need grapple, that is for sure. And a few games back we had some PCs wrestle an otyugh becasue the sorcerer was unconscious and being held by the dung beast. Of course this same PC tried to do the same to a dragon and the dragon looked bored and pinned him in about 2 second flat.

Oh and remember attacking into a grapple has an even chance of hitting the bad guy as the people grappling him.

Alll i can say is the bullrush, overrun, and grapple rules are a lot better than they were is 1st and 2nd editions....

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Oh and remember attacking into a grapple has an even chance of hitting the bad guy as the people grappling him.

Only for ranged attacks, of course.