Good Uses for Bull Rush, Overrun, Grappling, and Trip

[Insight]

Give Improved Trip to a high-Str Fighter with a reach weapon and watch the fun ensue! This was my previous character, and boy was it fun to trip, get the mass bonuses for using a two-handed weapon (plus they get no AoO for the attempt), and the +4 to the opposed check! As soon as they go down, BAM with the free attack, with +4 to the roll of course, because now they are prone! If they try to get up, BAM, AoO, again with +4 to hit. Combine this with Power Attack (plus 2H weapon) and you've got yourself a party!

A Fighter like this can take one opponent out of the fight every round, and with a Reach weapon (and especially if they have Combat Reflexes), they should keep all these downed guys within the threatened area. No one is getting up, or if they do, it's gonna hurt. Plus, you can always use the AoO to trip them again! I don't think you would get the free attack from Imp. Trip on the AoO though (this is a DM call because this can get abusive).

 

[Shin Okada]

You don't get bonus on tripping attempt for using a two-handed weapon.

 

[azmodean]

Actually shin, I said if you have the feat and you think it's going to work. I have to agree that with humaniod characters against monsterous foes it doesn't work that well, but I guess I'm biased differently, I tend to use a lot of NPCs as challenges, so trip is very viable.

 

[Shin Okada]

Actually shin, I said if you have the feat and you think it's going to work. I have to agree that with humaniod characters against monsterous foes it doesn't work that well, but I guess I'm biased differently, I tend to use a lot of NPCs as challenges, so trip is very viable.

A lot of NPCs? You mean you put a lot of NPCs with higher stats than PCs? And how tripping is "free attempt" when attacker may be tripped instead or drop his weapon?

If you like a massed soldiers, disarming can be much better tactics. Use a lot of 1st-level warrior (maybe with only +1 str bonus) with longspear or ranseur. This is a realistic encounter. Then let them use "aid another" action. For example, if 10 spearmen can surround a mighty hero, 9 can aid the last one to give him +18 bonus. Even without improved disarm feat, disarming will be easy unless the PC is also using a two-handed reach weapon. This tactics is a meanace especially against rogue types.

Or, an NPC can cast or otherwise use true strike and then attempt a disarm.

This kind of trick does not work for tripping or grappling, as bonus to an attack roll does not mean much for these moves.

 

[Shadeus]

You don't realize how powerful grapple is until you fight something with the swallow whole ability. Nothing like having your front-like fighter swallowed by a dinosaur or have a behir hold on to him while he can't do anything. Some of the higher-CR monsters have huge grapple checks. My high-level fighter took the close quarters combat feat just to counter grapples because it was too nasty.

 

[Shin Okada]

Of course, those tactics are very powerful if used by big monsters thanks to high strength and massive special size bonus.

I am talking about if those tactics can be a reliable option for PCs or NPCs of common races.

 

[argo]

I've never used these manuevers as either a player or DM, so I'd like some ideas for good tactics using any of these actions.

Bull rush in particular doesn't seem very useful unless you routinely fight foes that are perched at the edge of a cliff. In what other cases is it useful to push an opponent back 1 or more squares?

The usefulness of Bull Rush depends quite a bit on how complex your battlefields are. Any enviormental hazzard (edge of a cliff, edge of a pier into water, lava, blade barrier, web spell, grease spell) is a good setup for Bull Rush. More generally it can be a good way for a high Str character to open up holes in the enemy line for smaller characters to manuver through, to get tough oppenents away from weak allies in danger, to keep them out of a room while allies shut the door/prepare defenses to push them into a corner so they can't escape or to push them into a flank position next to the rogue so he can take a full-round of sneak attacks next round.

I suppose overrun is good to get through hostile squares without having tumble,

Actually that is abut the only good use for it :\ Still, it is a good way to rush enemy spellcasters if you are a high Str tank with no tumble skill.

and both overrun and trip are good for letting others get in one good attack against the foe before he gets up again (and getting AoO against him when he does).

Oh my goodness, do not underestimate the power of trip! Here is the most basic use for Improved Trip: take a two handed triping weapon (a guisarme or halbred is a good choice) and power attack for 4 points then make a trip attack, triping begins with a touch attack so your -4 to hit won't affect you too much if you are attacking your standard tank, once he is on the ground you get your improved trip attack but the -4 to hit is balanced by his -4 to AC for being prone. Volia! You just netted yourself a free +8 to damage. Also note that this tactic can work with disarms too since a disarm check is an opposed attack roll and a prone defender gets a -4 to melee attack rolls. Now be sure to also take Combat Reflexes and get that AoO on your oppenent, who still has the -4 to AC, when he stands up. Tripping is also an extremly effective area control ability: get a reach weapon that also is a tripping weapon (guisarme) and Combat Reflexes then position yourself somewhere where the enemy has to get past you then use your AoO's to trip the poor sod. When he hits the ground he looses the rest of his movement and has to spend his remaining action (if he has any) on standing up thus ending his turn and on his next turn he still has to get away from you! Under the right circumstances a single warrior can hold off a small squad singlehanded with this tactic thus protecting weaker allies who can then concentrate on whatever it is they have to do. At its most fundamental level the benefit of a trip is that it forces an enemy to waste one or more of his actions in getting out of it which can be devestating with the right tactics. And you may notice that I haven't even mentioned the spiked chain yet either Seriously, I have a DM who gives me dirty looks any time I make a character with Improved Trip.

Note: you cannot use the AoO a character provokes from standing up to re-trip him. He is already prone when he provokes so triping him is pointless, though he does still have the -4 to AC. A character who wants to stand up can just soak the AoO and stand up.

How about grappling? The only good tactic I can think of is to grapple and pin an enemy spellcaster and prevent him from casting most spells to allow the rest of the party to finish him off quickly.

Again, you are thinking too narowly. The fundamental function of grappling is that you deny another combatant all his actions at the expense of giving up yours. If there is any opponent who is messing your team up you grapple him and remove him from the playing field while your allies either concentrate on the rest of the opposition or gang up on the guy you are fighting. Remember: when you are grappled you loose your Dex bonus to AC versus oppenents not part of the grapple. Build a grappler and partner up with the party rogue, he will love you for it. Remember also that this applies to you as well so be careful grappling someone if he has a rogue buddy around to back him up. That DM I mentioned earlier really hated my grappling/stunning monk as well

One last thing, you must keep in mind that the thing about all of these manuvers is that they are focused on fighting humanoid opponents of your size or smaller (maybe one size larger but that is about it). If you are fighting lots of monsters then the utility of these tactics, and the characters built to take advantage of them, goes down dramatically. Try not to over-specialize if you can help it.

Hope that helps.