Level Up (A5E) Goodberry

[Cake Mage]

As I know that the o5e Goodberry spell can be a bit of a headache for DM's ( as in it was for me in my last game) I went to take a look at what they did. Wow what a nerf. The spell only gives 2d4 berries and doesn't provide sustenance. So right away its not as good, but the casting a higher levels: create 1d4 additional berries for ever 2 spell slots above 1st. So its possible to use a 3rd level spell slot and get 3 berries...

Maybe went too far on this one.

 

[niklinna]

Yes that's been brought up. If it's any consolation, a5e rangers can dig up grubs that are just about as effective as o5e goodberries.

 

[Cake Mage]

A few ideas for a fix:
Anyone that consumes a berry also regains 1 extra HD during their next long rest.
OR
Anyone that consumes a berry also regains 1 exertion point.
OR
Anyone that consumes a berry also gains an expertise die on their next d20 roll.

 

[Morrus]

It's intended. Breaks the exploration pillar.

(Also the ranger grub has an errata which nerfs it -- not sure how the current version made it though to the final book, but it will be fixed shortly)

 

[Cake Mage]

I definitely understand the removing of the sustenance part (and not providing supply) but not giving it anything else to compensate make it feel very underwhelming. Even just keeping it as 10 berries that restore 1 hp each at least gives it some dependability.
I really don't understand the scaling portion and how that seems adequate.

I'm probably sounding like debbie downer here. Everything else so far is great that I've read. I specifically wanted to check this spell out because of my last game through Tomb of Annihilation.

 

[MarkB]

One option would be to make it work with the exploration pillar. Instead of producing berries, it enhances the properties of berries or other edible plant products that you've found while foraging, increasing their level of sustenance and also giving them a modicum of healing properites.

 

[Aexalon]

Wait until you see what happened to the Bag of Holding, the Handy Haversack and the Portable Hole!

(While I understand the motive, it still hurts...)

 

[Horwath]

It's intended. Breaks the exploration pillar.

(Also the ranger grub has an errata which nerfs it -- not sure how the current version made it though to the final book, but it will be fixed shortly)

I agree 100% that the spell needed to be without sustenance part from the start of 5E, but now it's next to useless.
Unless this is an underhanded slap to the life cleric 1 level dip cheese, then I approve.

Now it heals less than Healing word and it's, on average 5 actions in melee vs. 1 bonus action at 60ft range.
Yes, it has some utility that you can hand it out for stabilization, that's why it's next to useless and not completely useless.

10 berries at 1st level and +10 berries per spell level would work fine now that it has lost "feeding" mechanic.

 

[Faolyn]

I agree 100% that the spell needed to be without sustenance part from the start of 5E, but now it's next to useless.
Unless this is an underhanded slap to the life cleric 1 level dip cheese, then I approve.

Now it heals less than Healing word and it's, on average 5 actions in melee vs. 1 bonus action at 60ft range.
Yes, it has some utility that you can hand it out for stabilization, that's why it's next to useless and not completely useless.

10 berries at 1st level and +10 berries per spell level would work fine now that it has lost "feeding" mechanic.

Option one: Change it so that eating a berry either allows you to immediately spend a HD to heal yourself or lets you gain one extra free HD when you spend them during a short rest (like Bardic Rest). Keep so you can only benefit from one a day.

Option two: Each berry acts as 1/4 Supply, thus if you want to feed more than one person, you need to upcast it or roll very well.

Option three: Both. You can either heal or eat a bunch of berries to get a Supply, but not both.

But yeah, I agree with you, Horwith. This spell has gone from OP to nothing anyone ever needs to take. Druids can already cast cure wounds, and this isn't competitive at all. The only benefit is you can keep the berries for a day.

Option 4: Change the material components to 1 Supply, transform it into 2d4 berries, each of which heals 1d4 hp or, if you are at max hp already, give you 1d4 temp hp.

 

[BabbageUK]

Option one: Change it so that eating a berry either allows you to immediately spend a HD to heal yourself or lets you gain one extra free HD when you spend them during a short rest (like Bardic Rest). Keep so you can only benefit from one a day.

Option two: Each berry acts as 1/4 Supply, thus if you want to feed more than one person, you need to upcast it or roll very well.

Option three: Both. You can either heal or eat a bunch of berries to get a Supply, but not both.

But yeah, I agree with you, Horwith. This spell has gone from OP to nothing anyone ever needs to take. Druids can already cast cure wounds, and this isn't competitive at all. The only benefit is you can keep the berries for a day.

Option 4: Change the material components to 1 Supply, transform it into 2d4 berries, each of which heals 1d4 hp or, if you are at max hp already, give you 1d4 temp hp.

I really like option 4, that fits well thematically. I know Cure Wounds is a thing, but these would allow you to give everybody their own temporary minor healing potion to use whenever. Nice idea.

 

[MarkB]

The real problem is that the Supply unit simply isn't granular enough to work with spells like this. You don't want a spell to be able to replicate an entire Supply (let alone multiple) for free if you're trying to enforce exploration and foraging challenges, but there isn't really any room in those game-mechanics for it to make a contribution that is smaller and yet still significant.