Grab and Go

[SDOgre]

I ran a game recently where the characters were fighting zombies in a room with four pits. One zombie grabbed a character with the intent of pulling him into a pit away from his friends and beating him to death.

Then came two rules dilemmas.

1. What happens when a second zombie grabs the character with the same intent? On the first zombie's turn if he pulls the character does the second zombie come with? Is it like aiding another?

2. A character used a power that pushed a zombie away from the character it had grabbed. Does the character go with the zombie? I ruled the zombie went but the character didn't. But should there have been some kind of roll since the zombie was hanging onto someone?

Any insight would be appreciated.

 

[Kordeth]

1. What happens when a second zombie grabs the character with the same intent? On the first zombie's turn if he pulls the character does the second zombie come with? Is it like aiding another?

From "effects that end a grab," PHB p. 290: "If a pull, a push, or a slide moves you or the creature you’re grabbing out of your reach, the grab ends." Moving a grabbed target is a pull, so when the grabbed target is pulled by the first zombie, the second zombie loses its grip.

2. A character used a power that pushed a zombie away from the character it had grabbed. Does the character go with the zombie? I ruled the zombie went but the character didn't. But should there have been some kind of roll since the zombie was hanging onto someone?

Any insight would be appreciated.

See above. Pushing the zombie away breaks the grab. It does not move the grabbed character.

 

[Mort_Q]

1. If one zombie delayed it's action so that their initiatives synced (assuming they weren't using the same init count anyway), have one aid the other seems reasonable.

2. The grab rules (p. 290) that if the grabber or the grabee is pulled, pushed, or slid out of reach, the grab ends.

 

[SDOgre]

Thanks for the rules clarification on the second point.

But for the first point, then there's no way for two people to drag someone somewhere? Say if two town guards (cops) are trying to drag a thug (gansta) away... only one could the other would keep losing his grip?

 

[Kordeth]

Thanks for the rules clarification on the second point.

But for the first point, then there's no way for two people to drag someone somewhere? Say if two town guards (cops) are trying to drag a thug (gansta) away... only one could the other would keep losing his grip?

Aid another gives an ally a +2 bonus to his next attack roll. Moving a grabbed target requires an attack roll. That allows one cop to help the other drag the thug. Alternately, the second cop could ready a move to keep pace with his partner and keep hold of the thug, making it harder for him to escape. Either could easily be described as "two people dragging someone."

 

[Hypersmurf]

But for the first point, then there's no way for two people to drag someone somewhere? Say if two town guards (cops) are trying to drag a thug (gansta) away... only one could the other would keep losing his grip?

Assuming a speed of 6, two people can drag someone away slightly faster than one person can drag someone away.

I have you grabbed; as a standard action, I can drag you 3 squares. Each round, assuming I keep winning the checks, we move 3 squares.

Now let's assume two of us have you grabbed. Let's say we're standing in the squares immediately east and west of you.

On my turn, I move to the square immediately northeast of you, and then drag you one square north. You are now one square north of where you started, with me to the northeast and my partner to the southwest. Since you are still within reach of my partner, his grab has not been broken.

On his turn, he moves two squares north, ending up one square northwest of you, then drags you two squares north. You have now been pulled a total of 3 squares from your starting position, and I am immediately southeast of you, while my partner is immediately northwest.

In every subsequent round, I move two then drag two, and my partner moves two and drags two. So each round of pulling after the first, the two of us can move you 4 squares, while if it was just me pulling, I could only move you 3 squares.

-Hyp.

 

[Kordeth]

Assuming a speed of 6, two people can drag someone away slightly faster than one person can drag someone away.

That's...actually very clever, Hyp. Well done--I never would have thought of that.

 

[Tellerve]

If I am envisioning this correctly Hyp, I think a problem might accour when the guy to the west drags those two squares, because doesn't that drag the grabbed person farther than you have traveled yourself.

That might be actually ok with RAW though, so I dunno. In any case, it is a good take on things in any case.

EDIT: OK, as the RAW, it is a pull, so I personnally wouldn't allow what Hyp is doing unless I'm misunderstanding what he is explaining.

Tellerve

 

[On Puget Sound]

Way too much work. Just delay to act on the same initiative, then tell the GM you are both dragging the prisoner. Although no rule specifically allows simultaneous actions, I don't think any rule forbids them. After all, most identical NPCs share the same initiative and move "together", though for convenience it's usually handled one at a time.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If I am envisioning this correctly Hyp, I think a problem might accour when the guy to the west drags those two squares, because doesn't that drag the grabbed person farther than you have traveled yourself.

No - at no point is the grabee moving without the grabber moving at the same time.

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|.....| |.....| |.....| |.....| |.....| |.....| |..[COLOR=red]h[/COLOR]..| 
|.....| |.....| |.....| |.....| |...@.| |.[COLOR=yellow]o[/COLOR].@.| |...@.| 
|.....| |.....| |.....| |.....| |..[COLOR=red]h[/COLOR]..| |..[COLOR=red]h[/COLOR]..| |.....| 
|.....| |.....| |.[COLOR=yellow]o[/COLOR]...| |.[COLOR=yellow]o[/COLOR].@.| |.[COLOR=yellow]o[/COLOR]...| |.....| |.....| 
|.....| |.[COLOR=yellow]o[/COLOR]...| |..[COLOR=red]h[/COLOR]..| |..[COLOR=red]h[/COLOR]..| |.....| |.....| |.....| 
|.[COLOR=yellow]o[/COLOR]h@.| |..[COLOR=red]h[/COLOR]@.| |...@.| |.....| |.....| |.....| |.....| 
------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- 
   1       2       3       4       5       6       7

Step 1: The orc and the human have grabbed the dwarf.
Step 2: The orc moves (or shifts) north one square.
Step 3: The orc takes a standard action to drag the dwarf north one square.
Step 4: The human takes a move action to move north two squares.
Step 5: The human takes a standard action to drag the dwarf north two squares.
Step 6: The orc takes a move action to move north two squares.
Step 7: The orc takes a standard action to drag the dwarf north two squares.

Repeat steps 4-7 each round.

-Hyp.