Granting XP help

[robotech_elder]

OK

a PC of mine ( i am an inexperienced DM but player wise pretty good.) anyhow a PC wanted to know how much XP he woudl get if he converted another PC to his goddess and if he established a church in the town we are adventuring in.

What do u guys think?

 

[howandwhy99]

XP by level of the person converted. You're going to want to go with your own rates based upon whatever game version you're playing.

Establishing a church in town is like owning a building, good, magic item, and so on or contracting for a service from someone. They are all their own reward. Just having them makes things better. In this case I'd say it is noticed and gains curiosity seekers who may then be converted for more XP. It's also a source of protection and a place that you could train acolytes to run services for you when you're gone. Lots of good ideas.

My suggestion in both cases: what to do with the church and how to answer the questions the EDIT: Converted PC asks about the cleric's goddess - is to let the player determine that for themselves.

You just need to cover what a building is, what NPCs do, how towns work, how deities behave (you need to have his goddess fleshed out from his descriptions for how she behaves and what she asks of him. What are her rituals. I'd ask the cleric's player for answers to all these so you can more easily run her during session).

 

[delericho]

For converting another PC? None whatsoever - there's no challenge involved.

For converting an NPC or setting up a church in the town? Depends on whether you roleplayed it, or whether there was some manner of quest involved.

If it's roleplayed, award XP for a single challenge equal to the group's average level. If it was done using a quest, determine all the individual challenges that made up the quest, and award XP for those normally.

(For example - if the group roleplay through buying land, contracting builders, etc etc, but didn't face any real opposition, they get the roleplaying award. On the other hand, if they have to clear out a nest of stirges, then fight off an incursion by thieves, and then... then award XP for each of these combats in turn.)

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

PC's level times 3d100 + Community's summer population times 17d20 + 1d4 time 375 per holy site of any other faith razed

Yes, that was a joke. No need to give XP for converting other PCs.

 

[N'raac]

a PC of mine ( i am an inexperienced DM but player wise pretty good.) anyhow a PC wanted to know how much XP he woudl get if he converted another PC to his goddess

How much of a penalty does the other PC get for converting? Give half to the converter Or maybe consider that not everything a character does should be guided by xp awards.

and if he established a church in the town we are adventuring in.

Like any other situation, xp awards should depend on the difficulty of the task accomplished. If all he has to do is say "I open a church", that was pretty simple so why would he get xp for that?

 

[pemerton]

In 4e, both would be Minor Quests, so earn XP equal to one monster of that level being defeated.

I'm note sure how 3E/PF handles quest awards.

For converting another PC? None whatsoever - there's no challenge involved.

How do you know that?

And even if it's true, challenge isn't the only in-principle basis for XP - you yourself mention RP XP, which aren't challenge-based.

 

[delericho]

How do you know that?

There's no roll the player can make to achieve this and, barring some extreme (and, when used on a fellow PC, potentially group-breaking) compulsions, there are no resources that can be expended to achieve this. It boils down to a matter of getting the player to make a free choice for his character.

You should no more gain XP for persuading them to pick a particular god for their character than you should for persuading them to take their next level in Wizard or for choosing to Power Attack next round.

I think it's also worth noting that the OP has said (either here or in his "wish" thread) that he's a fairly new DM with at least one player who seems to be deliberately trying to take advantage of his generosity. That being the case, I'm inclined to see this as another attempt to get 'cheap' XP out of his DM. I may be wrong about that, but my advice to a new DM with experienced players is certainly to err on the side of being conservative when giving out such things (XP, treasure, rulings...).

And even if it's true, challenge isn't the only in-principle basis for XP - you yourself mention RP XP, which aren't challenge-based.

Yes, and I'd be happy to give out RP XP if the Cleric converts a significant NPC to his faith (or, even better, an entire town). But it's that the roleplay is a matter of interacting with the wider campaign setting that is the key; intra-group roleplay is something that should just be happening, IMO, and is its own reward.

 

[pemerton]

There's no roll the player can make to achieve this and, barring some extreme (and, when used on a fellow PC, potentially group-breaking) compulsions, there are no resources that can be expended to achieve this. It boils down to a matter of getting the player to make a free choice for his character.

You should no more gain XP for persuading them to pick a particular god for their character than you should for persuading them to take their next level in Wizard or for choosing to Power Attack next round.

I think one PC converting another PC, in game, is very different from a player persuading another player about a mechanical choice in action resolution or PC build in an out-of-character conversation.

Extremely different.

And it's not true that resource can't be expended to achieve this. The cleric PC can spend resources healing the other PC. Or rebuilding his/her ruined house. Or could risk his/her life in combat to help the other PC, therefore illustrating the lengths to which the god in question will go to help the deserving. Even in the absence of a PC vs PC social conflict resoution mechanic, there are many ways to spend resources to persuade another PC to your point of view.

But it's that the roleplay is a matter of interacting with the wider campaign setting that is the key; intra-group roleplay is something that should just be happening, IMO, and is its own reward.

I don't understand this either - why is RPing that interacts with the GM's setting not its own reward also?

If characterisation, adding colour, exploring thematic idea, etc are worthwhile components of the game, they seem to be as worthwhile when done intraparty as with the GM. Which takes us back to PC conversion of another PC. If it took the form of "Write my god's name on your character sheet, then I can heal you without having to atone" of course no XP are required. But if it actually played out in character, with arguments being put, offers being made, etc then it strikes me as entirely XP worthy (under a general RP/Quest/etc XP framework).

 

[Sunseeker]

I would say none. I would instead reward him with some sort of in-game bonus. A higher standing in the Church(bringing in greater income, more dangerous missions, knowledge of sacred artifacts, ect...), perhaps a special item of some sort, acknowledging a dedication to his god/goddess.

"Will doing this give me more XP?" Is one of the most dangerous questions I've ever been asked. First: Because it is 100% at DM discretion, both in what you have to do and what that value is, and it can quickly lead to jealousy and one-up-manship between players. Second: because it leads to "kobold grinding" where players are looking for whatever grants them the most XP with the least effort in order to level faster, which is really boring to DM.

Of course, this is why I DM without XP. Players level when completing important events in the game-world or after a certain amount of "encounters".

I also caution you because being able to persuade a character and being able to persuade a player are two totally different things. My +10 bluff and my high charisma say that my character easily impresses yours and therefore you do what I say.

When it comes to player character-player character interaction, I rarely use or allow dice-rolls between player characters. Generally speaking when it comes to those situations I turn it over to the players themselves and have them RP their characters(stats disregarded) in order to determine the outcome.

 

[delericho]

And it's not true that resource can't be expended to achieve this. The cleric PC can spend resources healing the other PC. Or rebuilding his/her ruined house. Or could risk his/her life in combat to help the other PC, therefore illustrating the lengths to which the god in question will go to help the deserving. Even in the absence of a PC vs PC social conflict resoution mechanic, there are many ways to spend resources to persuade another PC to your point of view.

Yes, but none of these make the other PC convert. Said PC could just as readily look at all these boons and declare "nah, I don't think I'll bother".

I don't understand this either - why is RPing that interacts with the GM's setting not its own reward also?

Because the DM can police it, to make sure that the players haven't just arranged to stage this dramatic conversion for the cheap XP. And because they game does include mechanics for influencing the attitudes and thoughts of NPCs - be that diplomacy checks, Skill Challenges, or whatever. (The DM may choose not to use these mechanics, but in general if he does so it's because he's using freeform roleplay to the same end.)

Still, it's a good point - I'm not really a fan of XP awards for roleplaying at all. (Or, indeed, "quest XP" either, although less so.) These days, I just give a fixed number of XP per session.

If it took the form of "Write my god's name on your character sheet, then I can heal you without having to atone" of course no XP are required.

That's an interesting argument for a player to make - what with their being no such requirement to atone for healing characters of other faiths.

But if it actually played out in character, with arguments being put, offers being made, etc then it strikes me as entirely XP worthy (under a general RP/Quest/etc XP framework).

Perhaps.

I'll note again something that I think is pretty key: between this thread and the wish thread, it appears that the OP is a novice DM with more experienced players, at least one of whom seems to be trying to take advantage of his good nature. That being the case, while I would have no problem with an experience DM doing otherwise, my advice to him is not to allow it. Because to me, this feels like another attempt at abusing his good nature. I may be wrong about that, of course.